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Messages - Ken S

#1
We occasionally receive a question about fitting a T4 (a e200 mm diameter wheel which also fits a T2) onto a t8.

I just took some measurements using a metric combination square as a depth gage. The width of the 250mm grinding wheels is 50 mm at the edge. The indent on the outside (EZYlock side) is 4.5 mm, meaning the width of the wheel is 45.5 mm at the bore. The width of the 200 mm diameter wheels is 40 mm at the edge. The indent on the outside face is 2.5 mm, meaning the width of the wheel is 37.5 mm at the bore.

In order for the T4 wheel to tighten in a T8, it is necessary to add an extra Washer for stone,   Here is a link to the part:

https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Washer-for-Stone-P2059.aspx

With the added washer, a 200 diameter T4 wheel will fit in a T8 as well as any 250 mm wheel which has worn down to 200 mm. In general, I think it makes sense to use 250 mm wheels with the T8. Occasionally, a wheel is only available in 200mm or a 200mm hollow grind is specified for a particular blade.

Ken
#2
Drill bits remind me of the old John Wayne movie title, "They Were Expendable". As a career telephone man, I worked with drill bits all the time, and, like most of us, frequently abused them. I suspect that abuse is why they seem to need more frequent sharpening and wear down quickly.

Ken
#3
Philip,

Tormek is a very small company, with only around 40 employees. i suspect that most of them "wear more than one hat". I made a similar request years ago. My T7 was stolen during a home burglary. I needed the serial number for the police report. I emailed info. They emailed back with my serial number. Please give them more time. I have no doubt that they can help you.

Ken
#4
Philip,
Email your question and the photos to (info@tormek.se). They should be able to answer your question.
Ken
#5
Knife Sharpening / Re: "an afterthought" ?
February 21, 2024, 12:45:19 PM
TGB,

You and I are in agreement on the important areas. Let's just say that although the original Tormek was primarily designed to sharpen woodworking tools, it also functions very well for sharpening knives. Innovation is ongoing. I believe that the next year or two will see some major changes in knife sharpenng.

Ken
#6
9:30 AM (eastern time US) Wed feb 21

https://www.youtube.com/live/YOM931z3YPM?si=OY1CR3OCtlMB32Xs

Reshaping woodturning tools on a bench grinder
In this episode of the Tormek sharpening classes we explain how you can quickly and with full control, re-profile your turning tools on your bench grinder. The BGM-100 Bench Grinder Mounting Kit allows you to use the same jig settings as on your water-cooled Tormek sharpening system. It is therefore easy to do the rough shaping on the bench grinder and then continue to sharpen and maintain the edge of your Tormek machine.

Check in with us live today to see how to install and use the BGM-100 Bench Grinder Mounting Kit , and ask your questions to our experts. See you in a bit!
When?
TODAY Wednesday, February 21, 3.30 sharp!😉
(3.30 PM, Swedish time, CET / 9.30 AM, US Eastern Time, ET)
Watch live!


Ken
#7
Knife Sharpening / Re: "an afterthought" ?
February 21, 2024, 08:34:51 AM
Quote from: tgbto on February 20, 2024, 04:42:17 PM
Quote from: cbwx34 on February 20, 2024, 04:15:46 PMIt would be interesting to learn why it was discontinued. 

Maybe, maybe because even without the hassle of removing the wheel to hone, without having to buy a supplemental USB, etc. etc., only few knife-only sharpeners would buy a machine that required much more time to set an edge than a belt sander. Even if it could produce hair-splitting edges. So making it a profitable product even at (or more so because of) a high price point would be a challenge. I don't know if this is true, but the link given by @Dan mentions an initial price of 1500 EUR (1600+ USD) with the DC stone.

I think the "crazy sharp" knife sharpeners market is much tinier than the "push cut tomato" one. So having only one lineup for very sharp edges, even if sharpening knives requires a bit of contorsion, seems a more sensible approach. And for 1600+ bucks one could easily buy a standard T-8 for grinding and custom one for honing. AMHIK :grin:



There is a lot which we do not know. Why was the T4000 discontinued? From the design time of the T4000 and the present, what advances and changes have occurred?

The stainless steel frame of the T4000 certainly looks impressive. At the time of its design, rust was a problem. While this was in part caused by the materialsof the day, the worst cases were also due to carelessness by the users.
With today's machined zinc housings and improved coatings, stainless no longer offers such a great advantage.

Tormek specifically designed the T2 for use by restaurant staff as opposed to professional sharpeners. The T2 is designed to be used and kept in a restaurant. Part of the design is the convenience of not having to deal with water, ACC, or honing paste. Another part is not having to fiddle with    jigs. The T2 is designed to maintain sharpness. Very dull knives slow efficiency and put extra physical stress on the user. A well managed professional kitchen would have its knives regularly sharpened and woul not have nearly the problems f abuse encountered by he professional sharpener.

If professional kitchen users had the chance f side by side demonstrations with the T4000 and the T2, ow would they choose?

I realize this is a group of sharpeners, not restaurant staff. Several factors should be included in the conversation. An important factor is the Tormek philosophy of sharpening. Until the introduction of the T2 and T1, this has been exclusively water cooled. Minimal steel removed is a Tormek hallmark. Jig controlled grinding. And, the preferred honing technique is hand held. A key factor is "no Tormek left behind".

Another real world factor is how to price work done. A dedicated professional sharpener should make a reasonable business profit. This can be complicated by what the customer is willing to pay. A sharpener is not a charity. Some abused, neglected knives re not worth the expense of sharpening. On the other hand, the sharpener's technique and workflow should be efficient and geared toward a realistic amount of sharpness.

Ken
#8
Knife Sharpening / Re: "an afterthought" ?
February 21, 2024, 03:07:12 AM
John,

Unfortunately, anyone reading what you quote from me out of context might think it reflected my opinion. I was just stating that I had read this on the forum. I would hope that any on our members reading that statement would be diligent enough to learn the full story.

Ken

#9
Interesting comment. We must be talking about two different knives. I would agree that 30° per side is too obtuse. However; I measured my knife with my Tormek square. The bevel was more acute than the most acute notch on the square (25° inclusive). This puzzles me. 30°per side seems much too obtuse. Less than half of 25° inclusive seems too acute. Your suggested 17° per side seems much more practical.

The grind resembles a Scandinwith a secondary bevel. The Scandi part or the grind seems close to 35° inclusive. Ontario Knife made more than one model of knife/machete. Perhaps like Goldilocks and the Three Bears, one is too obtuse and one is too acute. Maybe we have to grind "the just right angle" ourselves. So much for field testing. . .

Ken
#10
Knife Sharpening / Re: "an afterthought" ?
February 20, 2024, 12:49:42 AM
No.

I do not agree with that at all. You state:

"Don't take me wrong though, I love the Tormek and the edges they produce on my knives. It just takes much longer than a belt sander, and customers who will be able to tell both apart are a minority."

If most of your customers feel that way, you have not educated them. I had the same problem with some customers years ago with my custom processing photographic darkroom business. Most people don't know the difference between an archivally processed fiber print and a mass produced drug store print. I would politely explain the difference to them. At that point, they would either appreciate quality work or they wouldn't. I was happy to serve those who did.

Part of the education process could be sharpening one of their knives at no charge and explaining the process to them. The process should be made as efficient as possible without cutting back on the quality.


Ken
#11
Knife Sharpening / Re: "an afterthought" ?
February 19, 2024, 12:43:27 PM
TGB,

I agree that the T8 is "the weapon of choice" for heavy duty use and versatility.

That stated, I also believe that recent introductions of the 200mm diamond wheels, FVBs (especially the MB-102), and the US-430 extended support bar have somewhat lessened that gap.

I also believe that the "blue machines" (as stated in the onlineclass on comparing the Tormek lineup) are primarily "the woodworking machines".  Please note that I say "primarily" and not "exclusively".

Although the situation is already changing, in my opinion jig development for knives has also lagged behind woodworking and wood turning jigs. Recently we now have the self centering KJ knife jigs. In development, Tormek has a new knife setting jig which is much more advanced than the Anglemaster for knives. (This was introduced on the forum perhaps a year ago.)

Setting the bevel angle on knives reminds me of flattening and polishing the back on chisels. Both can be laborious and time consuming. However, both are one time procedures. Also, with setting bevel angles, there are always the options of matching the existing angles using the black marker and changing the angle gradually over several sharpening sessions. If used by Tormek's intentions, the home cook with a T1 might have a longer session with the first sharpening followed by very quick resharpening sessions. A restaurant staff sharpener would have a similar possibly longer initial sharpening session followed by faster touch up resharpenings.

 Any Tormek is certainly not the low cost coice for sharpening.
I don't know the marketing statistics. I believe the vast majority of Tormek users are home users, as opposed to professional sharpeners.  I compare these users to home woodworkers who prefer Lie-Nielsen tools to well worn Stanley tools. In the hands of a skilled worker, a properly tuned century old Stanley tool will come very close to a Lie-Nielsen. i suspect most premium tool users know this, but are happy to use more expensive premium tools. I sharpened my basement workshop tools for decades with oil and water stones and could do so today. I just prefer ouse my less laborious Tormek.

Ken
#12
Knife Sharpening / Re: "an afterthought" ?
February 18, 2024, 12:08:58 PM
Andy,

If you are able to procure it, please post your usage thoughts,

Ken
#13
Knife Sharpening / Re: "an afterthought" ?
February 18, 2024, 10:44:50 AM
Did the 4000 prove that the other versions were not really knife sharpeners?
If so, how?

Looking at the photo, there is an AWT-250 water trough.I am not sure if this was part of the original T4000. It is possible; however, it was also included with T7s starting some time around 2010 and has always been part of the T8.
(My original T7 from August 2009 had the original, smaller water trough. After it was stolen, the replacement I purchased had the AWT-250.)

The SG-250 and leather honing wheel shown were also standard issue on all T7s and now on the T8 Original.

The US-400 support bar shown was never standard issue with the T8, although an improved version, the US-430, has been available as an optional extra for several years.(The US-430 has the same longer bar. the two legs are 50mm longer for sharpenng cleavers.)

The frame of the T4000 was stainless steel and longer, both desirable features.
However, the machined zinc frames and EZYlock shafts of today's Tormeks have essentially eliminated the advantage of stainless and provide more precise alignment. Using a FVB and US-430, I can easily sharpen and hone my longest knife, a ten inch chef's knife, even with my T4.

Tormek has developed some remarkable jigs for woodworking and turning tools. However, there are no specialty machines for these tools. By contrast, the Tormek lineup now includes two specialty machines for different segments of the knife sharpening market. Tormek has added the self centering KJ knife jigs and a new setting jig is in the development pipeline.

Tormek put heavy research and development in the T2 for the restaurant market. This included working with the Swedish Culinary Team and customers in Sweden before announcing it globally. making the frame longer would not have been a major issue for the design team. I have to believe the design team had sound technical reasons for not using a longer frame. The T2 has a knife jig specially designed for it and comes with a diamond wheel and composite honing wheel, both Tormek's latest innovations. I have no doubt that Tormek will eventually introduce modifications and relacement models for the zt2, as they have for their entire lineup. I have already seen this with my T7 and most of the jigs and accessories I originally purchased. The old ones still work as well as ever; the new ones just work better.

Ken
#14
Knife Sharpening / "an afterthought" ?
February 17, 2024, 08:58:48 AM

"The Tormek was not created as a knife-sharpening equipment. Knives are kind of an afterthought."

I recently read this comment on our forum. While I partially agree with this, I also have reservations about it. It is true that Torgny's original idea fifty years ago was to create a sharpening tool for his father who was a woodworker. I don't know exactly when Tormek users began sharpening knives.

While developing the kenjig technique, I learned that the SVM knife jigs were modified in 1992 to have shorter handles. I don't know when the first Tormek knife jigs were introduced. However, by 1992, thirty two years ago, they were modified. I do not consider thirty two years "an afterthought". In those thirty two years we have seen several versions of the SVM jigs and an entirely new series of KJ jigs.

Ken
#15
Denis,
I suggest you email support (support@tormek.se).
Ken