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We often see ACC (Tormek Anti Corrosion Concentrate) described as "expensive". Sometimes this is even listed as a con in pro and con descriptions of diamond wheels.ñ What I have not seen is "expensive" explained in actual usage costs. Nor have I seen the full benefits of ACC included in these criticisms.

Here are my questions for those of you using diamond wheels and ACC:

Every new diamond wheel includes one 150ml bottle of ACC. At the recommended dilution of 1:25, and the T8 water trough holding 125ml of water and 5ml of ACC, this included bottle should ideally provide thirty fresh sharpening sessions. This number will be influenced both by any spillage and how often the diluted solution is reused. The question is, have you used the ACC enough to require purchasing more?

Approximately how many knives or tools will one bottle of ACC last the way you sharpen? Related to this, for those who sharpen professionally, how much revenue will this number of knives or tools produce?

I hope this topic will provide a better definition of what "expensive" is.

Ken

I found this video interesting. Although the presenter uses two high speed dry grinders and both CBN and conventional grinding wheels, his thoughts could be applied to a Tormek and diamond and/or conventional grinding wheels.

He describes himself as an active hobbiest woodturner who does sell some bowls. For several years, he used his $120 eight inch dry grinder with the 80 and 120 grit supplied grinding wheels. He found this combination satisfactory for his needs. Then he upgraded to a one horsepower grinder with 80 and 600 grit CBN wheels. He basically had no complaints with the sharpening quality of his new thiusand dollar rig. It works as wel as his old one hundred twenty dollar rig. He did note that the old rig required a fifteen dollar diamond T truing and dressing tool.

His criticism of the new rig was that, for his essentially hobbiest use, he felt the much larger cost was overkill. In fairness, I must also state, that a set up with a couple diamond wheels could also be considered overkill for him.

There is nothing wrong with a fancy CBN or diamond rig, although for many years we made do with an SG-250 at most more modest cost. Since almost sharpening is restoring the existing bevel, the old combination still works for thrifty sharpeners. Here is a link:

https://youtu.be/4V1r1oFJa8c?si=zehFcYDltDbJs92y

Ken

EDIT: When I first posted this topic, I inadvertently typed "KS-123" instead of ?"KJ-45".

Now that we have had the chance to use the KJ-45 knife setting jig, I am curious to know your experiences with using it for convexing edges.

Have you used it to convex edges?

If so, did you use it once out of curiosity or has convexing become part of your regular sharpening program?

If convexing is now part of your regular sharpening program, which knives do you convex? (function and thickness)

For those of you who sharpen professionally, do your customers request convexing, and do you add a surcharge for it?

I have no hidden agenda pro or con, just curiosity to learn the wisdom and experience of the forum.

Ken

This intimate look at Swiss Army Knives reminded me very much of the warm feelings of my visit last summer to Tormek.
Enjoy, Ken

https://youtu.be/_jOcOtwhlP8?si=-3Fl2FkxxKPdeIPj

This came in from a new member and somehow,the message got confused in the pixels.
Advice from you turners wouls be appreciated.
Thanks, Ken




link=msg=40834 date=1719079141]
Sorry if this has been asked, many times, before! I have a bowl gouge with a 30 degree bevel (it's def a BG!) I will re-grind most probably very soon but for now, how do I set the jig on my T8 to sharpen this, please? Does not appear to be a setting for this. I presume I cannot treat it as a spindle gouge?
[/quote]

 There is an English language expression, "sea change", meaning "a profound or notable transformation" (source: Oxford Dictionary).

One comment during the online class 24 about the KS-123 was that the more jigs which were added, the slower Tormek sharpening became. While there is an element of truth in this, the complete picture is that these more advanced jigs also make the sharpening more accurate. Not many Tormek sharpeners want to refurn to just freehand sharpening and honing.
Of the present ongoing sea changes, the first seems to be the US-430, an evolution of the out of production US-400 support bar. At the request of a group of Tormek owners lead by Tormek dealer, Steve Bottorff, Tormek agreed to making a limited run of the US-400. I was proud to have been a part of that group. This limited run sold out quickly. I was also at least one of those who suggested that Tormek extend the two side legs, which created the present US-430. A useful tool was added to the Tormek system. (It should be noted that the US-430 is really for long knives only.)

For years, we grumbled about the SVM jigs not being automatically self centering. Tormek corrected this with the introduction of the KJ knife jigs. This seems an ongoing change, as a number of us are still not content with the reduced adjustability of the KJ. However, the KJ jigs do provide self centering at very reasonable cost.

The new KS-123 is a major step forward. In my opinion, the Tormek Design Committee really nailed the issue of using the Amglemaster with knives. We can now reserve the Anglemaster, a fine tool, for its intended purpose, flat chisels and plane irons.

Related to the KS-123 change is an even bigger sea change. Tormek has tradionally recommended freehand honing. Withlonger knives, jig honing did not work because of clearance problems with the jig and the plastic locking knobs. Pioneered by late forum member, Wootz, of Knife Grinders, many of us purchased third party Frontal Vertical Bases, which solved the clearance problem. This clever solution, just adding two holes to the MB-100, offered two functions for about the same cost as either of the two jigs. I do not believe Tormek has or will completely abandon freehand honing, although their recent comments seem to have warmed considerably to it.
When I first started using my T7 in 2009, I felt that certain areas of sharpening had advanced more with Tormek. I felt that knife sharpening was not the most area. With recent changes, I no longer feel that way. "Sharpening Innovations" is a good description of Tormek.

Ken

One of my very few disagreements with the online classes is about replacement "transport spacers" This little spacer keeps the shaft aligned when the grinding wheel is removed. Unfortunately, it is frequently lost or discarded. When viewers question how to get a replacement, they are told to make one out of wood or similar materials. I think this is poor advice. Yes, I have made several out of plastic water pipe; however, I have a drill press. Complaints to Tormek and a prominent parts dealer went nowhere.

Last August, during my visit to Tormek, I had the good fortune to meet John and Darren Of Sharpening Supplies. I shared my complaint with them. They told me they would look into it. To my surprise, the spacer was listed on their website, along with several other hard to find parts. I immediately ordered one. Darren emailed me to let me know that my order would be complimentary, a nice touch.

Two bits of advice:

First, for those who still have their spacer, mark it "SAVE" with a Sharpie.

Second, make a note to include a couple with your next Sharpening Supplies order.

The spacers themselves are very inexpensive; it's shipping which drives up the cost. Combining them with other products softens the shipping cost.

Ken
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I have been working with Dutchman's Grinding Angle tables for more than ten years. Even without an extensive math background, "Projection", Distance", "Bevel Angle", and "Changes in wheel diameter" have become comfortable old friends. I have Dutchman's tables downloaded on my ipad and printed copies scattered throughout my house.

I will readily admit that my kenjig has been completely outgunned by the KS-123 and that it will soon become mostly a relic. Both operate on the same theory; however, the KS-123 is far more sophisticated.

I had the rare opportunity of being in a discussion group with both Per and Håkan, independent designers of very similar jigs. Håkan kindly presented with a prototype jig.

Without the benefit of instructions or an online class, I had some initial difficulties understanding the KS-123; however these were soon surpassed. The online class greatly shortens the learning curve.

One concept which has been mentioned in several classes, but never fully explained is the concept of loading. Woodworkers encounter this all the time with hand plane depth adjustment screws. The same is true with adjusting wheels in machine shops. For precise adjustment, one should always  try to move the screw  ( with the Tormek that means moving the microadjust upward. This eliminates the "slop" . Either direction will get the job done; eliminating the slop just is a little better.

I will not be discarding my Anglemaster. I will move it from my knife jig to my square edge tools, where it was originally designed to be used. It functions very well with chisels and plane blades, especially with good light.

Ken

PS The most pleasant surprise with the KS-123 was the price. Having worked with a prototype, I honestly expected the price to be double the $50 US. And, instead of my present nine knife jigs, I could do the job with only one KJ-45 (possibly adding a KJ-140 if I ever purchase a long , thin filleting knife, which is doubtful).

An interesting way of precisely sharpening spokeshave blades:

https://youtu.be/GPWZ6dwCjIM?si=X5u6bDLCv7mlRydj

Ken

The late David Charlesworth was a superb woodworker. This is the best demonstration of cambering with the SE-77 that I have found.

https://youtu.be/Bfd-xzOF5sc?si=_04kB3L-veZorMvj

Ken

This video is by Darryl Hughes of Affinity Cuiinary, the former US importer. I met Darryl years ago and remember him as a likable guy. Judging from this video, he has also become quite knowledgeable, also. The video is focused on professional chefs, the target market for the T2. It is obviously a marketing video, but well done. here is a link:

https://youtu.be/lO2gVo9jx2I?si=XIWkDNS25nXNkhdN

Ken

I inadvertantly caused a firestorm when I posted my idea that I thought a knife only side job sharpener might be better served with a T2 instead of a T4 or T8 as his main machine. Without any evil intentions, I apparently dishonored a sacred cow.

I respect the critical replies. They are based on good, solid Tormek experience. However; I don't always agree with them. A primary criticism was that the T2 can only sharpen kitchen knives. (To be fair, as a specialty machine, it is specifically designed for chefs to maintain their knives.) As an old hand with sharpening chisels and plane irons going back to oilstones, fine tooth mill files, and sandpaper on glass, I am quite sure I could sharpen chisels and plane irons with my T2. I freely admit that the T2 is no match for a T4 or T8 with these tools. How often do chefs sharpen woodworking tools?

Most youtube videos show a knife being thoroughly abused before being sharpened. Although the T2 survives this cruel and unusual punishment, how often do we see a good chef actually abuse his knives, the tools of his trade, like this? Yes, the T2 is really designed for knives to be regularly maintained. Why would a top professional want it otherwise?

"Only knives"? Not so. The two Tormek videos demonstrate sharpening other tools which are part of every kitchen such as food processor blades and rotary blades. Especially with food processor blades, I don't know of any other jig controlled method of sharpening these.

The more recent video (Johan and Hugo) includes some things not in the first video. The wheels used originally used were DWF, as opposed to the more recent DF with side diamonds. I reduced a bolster with my DWF, although the newer DF does this more conveniently using the side of the wheel. The newer video also shows some user modifications to expand the range of the jig.

I believe through field use the T2 is evolving into an even more useful machine. I leave it to the reader to decide if he wants to include it in his sharpening kit.

Ken

This surprised me. Thoughts?

https://youtu.be/u1mMoXjHWcQ?si=gAGpWFrQJulJnGBt

Ken

The T2 Online Class is well done and informative. This video goes beyond it, adding the experience gained from more time in the field. It is located on the Tormek Culinary youtube channel and well worth watching. I recommend it not just for T2 users, but also for anyone who sharpens knives with a Tormek. Here is a link:

https://youtu.be/JFSg_eUYc10?si=B7Z5_LAHQPfh5YDc

Ken

I enjoy Ukulele Jay's videos. In this video, he demonstrates how he skillfully uses his T1. His technique is not idetical to Tormek's. It is close and it is effective.

https://youtu.be/CRoeRtjUymE?si=Kx0ZHCgb_8lFcvs5

Enjoy.

Ken

All of the demonstrations in the online classes show the honing compound being applied directly before honing. I can see the teaching value of doing this in sequence; however, it is not the most effective time to apply the compound.

The online classes mention that the honing compound works best when it is almost dry. I would suggest that it should be applied the first thing after the cover is removed to give it as much time as practical to dry.

Ken

Tormek makes a very nice small square. You get one "for free" if you purchare the Anniversary Black T8. Unfortunately, this small square is not yet available as a stand alone accessory. HOWEVER, there is a relatively inexpensive "plan B". Although the TTS-100 is primarily designed for setting woodturning tools, it can also work very well with vhisels and plane irons. It makes a very fast, accurate setting tool and a useful small. Wolfgang demonstrates this at 1:07:20 in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/live/7aHmc43RUY4?si=av0B0hGR-tWmKWQy

Wolfgang demonstrates this with a skew chisel; however, many things in sharpening cross function.

Ken

PS The first time I sharpened a turning skew, I did not know the TTS-100/ small square trick. I assumed my skew angle matched the Tormek diagram. This "sharpening" turned into a lengthy reshaping project. A wiser plan would have been to draw the square line and set the skew angle to just a little closer to the recommended angle. After several sharpenings, I would have gradually matched the angle. A markedcollar with the third setting left blank initally would have tipped me off.

This video shows an interesting combination grind for scandigrind carving knives:

https://youtu.be/2awkDNBT584?si=HV0H3RqOuEKk5pI8

Ken

This seems like a good video for maintaining a T1 ( or the pads of a T2.

https://youtu.be/hKohrsHODTA?si=g788I_Jv6cvU0TUJ

Ken

I see frequent topics wondering about whether or not to purchase an older Tormek. This forum is probably the best place to ask these questions, as many of us have extensive experience with older Tormeks.

What concerns me is what I usually don't see in these topics. What is the asking price compared to the cost of a new Tormek. I do not mean to minimize the cost of a new Tormek on one's budget; however, what I have seen of used prices is often very close to the cost of a new unit. Before I purchased my T7, I knew nothing about the used Tormek market. A good used Tormek at a fair price would have been very tempting to me, even a T-2000 in good condition.

Please do not misunderstand me. A T-2000 is a solid machine, usually with many years of useful life remaining. It is compatable with all the latest jigs and accessories. With Tormek's no obsolescense policy, worn, missing, or non working parts can be replaced. Even a severe case, like a rusted shaft with a frozen grinding wheel, can be replaced. If the initial price of the used unit is low enough, even expensive repairs like this may be cost effective. However, at the listed prices I have seen, this is rarely the case.

A rebuilt older Tormek is not the same thng as a new Tormek. It normally does not have Tormek's iron clad eight year (5+3 years if registered) warranty. Tormek has incorporated many innovations over the years. I upgraded the drive wheel of my T7. The new drive wheel is zinc instead of plastic and will probably never break. The rubber wheel is a patented rubberlike surface for better performance. The paint on the housing has improved rust resistance. The present universal supports are threaded for the microadjusts. The alignment of the shaft and sleeves is more precise with the machined zinc top. The present version of the TT-50 truing tool is much improved over the T-2000 vintage truing tool and improved over the original TT-50.

Is a used T-2000 a good buy? For the right price, I would buy one, but only at the right price. I still believe a new user who does not have a trusted coach is better served with a new, fully warranted Tormek.

Ken