Messages

I found using a bandsaw frustrating until I studied with Mark Duginske.  Following his teachings, I now go through a quick setup routine each time I use the saw.  With the blade tracking properly, the guides and back bearings properly set, the saw is a joy to use.  Mark's good training has removed the hit and miss element for me.

As much as I would like to simplify using the Tormek for beginners, dressing the wheel is a necessary skill.  We all need to do it, if not at first, eventually.  Why not provide encouragement and guidance for the newbies to learn it right? Just like my bandsaw routine, it is part of good setup practice.  I would not want to be in the middle of sharpening a tool and have to true the wheel for the first time.

When I bought my first photographic enlarger many years ago, I debated about whether to spend the extra fifty dollars to get the stabilized voltage model.  In the end, I opted to get it.  It eliminated one possible problem.  Learning how to properly dress the grinding wheel at the start would eliminate nagging problems from an out of true wheel.

Ionut's marking is also called "witness marks", and used in machine trades to make sure an assembly is properly reassembled.  It seems like a good idea to me.  Probable gain and no downside risk.

Realizing that wheels wear down, I would be surprised if many of us actually need to replace one.  If a lot of work is done with high speed steel (drill bits, turning tools, planer/jointer blades), obtaining a SB wheel as a second wheel seems I wise plan.  (I have one.)

I like having different opinions on the forum.  Variety of thought makes the forum both more interesting and more educational.

Ken

I would expect a new Tormek owner who happened to have a solid background as a machinist or as a grinder to follow Ionut's advice in truing his machine.  I don't think this person would be the typical new owner who experienced trouble learning to use his Tormek.

My gut feeling is that the majority of those who experience initial difficulty probably do not have that extensive background.  If we can help them over the initial hurdles, I believe eventually they will become proficient.  Maybe the question of dressing the wheel should be in the "less frequently asked folder".

Ken

Rob, I agree.  This can be a pitfall easily avoided.

Ken

Good answers, Rob and Ionut.  Better because they are not the same.

Ionut, your answer does not surprise me.  I have known for some time that you have developed your craft to a very high standard of precision.  You have done this by your own work and have generously shared the results and encouraged the rest of us to expand our abilities.  I have the advantage over most of the forum of having shared posts and personal emails with you which have  encouraged me to go beyond the usual "limitations" of the Tormek.

Rob, you present a very logical way to quickly determine if the wheel and USB are in good alignment.

My question for both of you is:  From the standpoint of someone who is first opening the box on his new Tormek (perhaps with very little sharpening background), would it be more beneficial to try to use the TT-50 right away or wait until he had a feel for the machine?

Ionut, while you were gone, the idea recently emerged of having some sort of a forum guide for very beginners to try to help get past some of the common beginning pitfalls.  That's the context of my question.

I look forward to reading more on this from both of you.

Ken

[after a period of use]

With our "quick start guide" in mind, I am wondering whether or not to include a recommendation to use the diamond dresser before initial grinding.  My unsupported dry grinding memory would indicate this would be a good practice to true the stone with the grinder.

I find no mention of this in the Tormek handbook.  Early in the book, it states that "A grindstone can, after a period of use, become uneven on its sruface and run out of true."  it then suggests using the TT-50 diamond dresser.

The TT-50 itself doesn't appear in my copy until page 139.

I recall carefully using the TT-50 to initially true the wheel on my first Tormek. I don't recall doing so with my second unit.  (both were purchased new).  I don't recall any difference in the performance.  (Except less operator with the second unit)

My question is, should a recommendation for initial truing of the stone be included in our guide, or omitted? If it serves no practical value, i would like to keep things simple.  Comments?

Ken

I'm glad you are enjoying this, Rob.

Ken

I have read several posts recommending using cheap tools for learning.  Although I see the logic of this advice, I disagree. 

While the paper cutting test an thumbnail test are certainly good indicators of sharpness, I believe the final test comes at the workbench or cutting board.  A wise cooking dictum states that one should never use a wine for cooking one would not drink.  I believe that should apply to using a Tormek, right from the start.  I'm not saying one should necessarily start with  the very best tools, however, the initial tools should at least be tools one would use in good work. 

The initial knife used with the Tormek should be the knife you use on a regular basis on your cutting board.  I was pleased to read the recent comment that "I do a lot of cooking".  That is so important; the feedback on your knives should come from you actually using them on a regular basis.

The same applies with chisels and other tools.  Whether your chisels are used for rough work of hand cutting dovetails, you should learn to use your Tormek using the actual field tools.  In theory this could shorten the tool life. In actual practice I believe we would learn more carefully and thoroughly using our good tools.

I was delighted to feel the results of finally becoming proficient with my knife jig.  My knives make easy work of tomatoes and onions.  (One also made a very sharp incision on one of my finger tips, not so good, but very sharp.)

Ken

Good point, Rob.  I've never lived in a high production framing environment like Herman has.  One of the things I value in this forum is being able to share our different backgrounds. 

Ken

for your linguistic pleasure......

http://www.npr.org/2012/02/13/146652747/im-just-sayin-there-are-anachronisms-in-downton

Ken

My gut reaction is that a cold chisel should be sharp (and have the mushroomed head ground off for safety).  I wanted to find a source to document this.  From Fundamental Shop Training by Shuman, Monroe and Wright (1945):

"To cut well, chisels must be sharp.  Hence, they should be ground at once when they become dull."  (p 25, discussing cold chisels)  They also suggest a 70 degree angle for cutting cast iron and about 60 degrees for mild steel and wrought iron.

Ken

I would respectfully disagree.  Too many people I respect teach polishing the back.

Ron Hock's book is handy:  "Proper honing of a chisel relies on properly flattening the back.  As with plane irons, a flat, polished back is essential to a sharp edge." (p 125)

Ernie Conover always teaches that a sharp edge depends on both planes, the bevel and the back.  He takes both to 8000 grit.

My forty year old Stanley butt chisels have done the heavy work for me.  They frequently have received nicks.  I can always see myself looking at the backs.  Is this overkill or just good sharpening technique?  (Actually the mirror backs go back to when they were my only chisels and did dovetails as well as rough work.  I would still polish rough chisel backs.)

Ken

Welcome back, Ionut.

Ken

Rob, I think it's premature to start losing faith.  I probably lob as many ideas into the ether as anyone.  I would not call the process willy nilly.

I don't see the process as being all that difficult.  Each portion of the forum has a locked message from Jeff.  The messages state that they were originated by Jeff.  I assume you can edit, delete of add, Jeff?

A second locked message might be entitled "quick start guide" or something similar.  I would suggest keeping it locked so that it always appears in the top of the first page.  No need for frustrating searches.  And, being locked, but editable by the forum moderator, would keep it manageable.

Speaking only for myself, I would be quite comfortable turning control over to Jeff.  I don't believe it would impose a large work burden for him.  With copy-paste from the pool of ideas, editing should be minor. Personally, I don't care whether I would receive any name notation or not for what I contribute.

I would not expect the "first draft" to be the end all.  That's the beauty of future editing.  For the record, if I should happen to notice any fumble fingered typos, I would send the editor a private email through the forum.

I consider this a work in progress.  While I don't think we should procrastinate a lot, I see no need for immediate speed..

Jeff, any thoughts?

Ken

Good point, Herman.

I've noticed more products coming with "'quick start guides".  I think that's a great idea.  Naturally I want to commit the 437 safety possibilities to memory,  but only (sometime) after I use the machine.

I believe if a new user can consistently sharpen a chisel and a kitchen knife well, that can form the basis for sharpening anything else within the range of the Tormek.  All of the basic skills are present with these two tools.  Preparing the stone; setting the bevel, including checking it with the Sharpie; knowing when to use the coarse or fine grading setting; and honing with the leather strop.  other posts have correctly noted the importance of listening to the cutting action; feeling the stone; and watching the water flow over the tool.  All of these are part of successfully sharpening a chisel and a kitchen knife.

Confident with basic Tormek skill, the new user can more intelligently benefit from studying nontormek specific material such as Leonard Lee's and Ron Hocks's books.  (Herman, you will find that Leonard Lee recommends a certain "toothiness" for a kitchen knife edge.  He doesn't want the edge polished super sharp.  He prefers a little grabbiness to catch things like tomato skin.  He recommends using a 1000 grit stone and no further.) That kind of related information, as well as Ron Hock's discussion of bolster thinning and the general discussion of steel and edges in both books is certainly useful in a Tormek education.

The forum can be a great source of information for things like how to put a specific grind on a turning tool.  No one loses anything by sharing experience, good or bad.

My thought for the forum "quick start guide" would be as an aid to help the new user achieve the skill and confidence with the Tormek, chisel and knife.  That could easily be the difference between a Tormek user and  one who has a Tormek in a box on a high shelf while using dull tools.

The guide should be readily available.  (That's why I suggest making it like the welcome messages.)  It should not involve having to use the search function.  (often another frustration).  It should be available to anyone who finds the forum, regardless of whether one purchases a Tormek, a competitor's product, or no product.  An interested person should realize that a Tormek is a very versatile tool, which also happens to have a modest learning curve. (Anyone who is able to access the information online should know about learning curves from the computer.)

It should also not be too long.  I had best end here.

Ken

I happened to visit my former local Tormek dealer last weekend.  (I moved out of the area last summer.)

The dealer now has a new huge store facility (six or seven acres of store).  For the first time I saw a T3 in their small Tormek display.  The T3 was still in the box on a lower shelf, but at least it has made it to the shelf.

Ken