a note to Steve (and the forum)

[Steve Brown]

Thanks Ken, I'll check it out.
Steve

[Ken S]

Steve,
Lee Valley has free shipping on orders over $40 until 3-28.  It's a great time to fill in any overlooked small items.  I plan to order one of their plane screwdrivers.

How goes it with our new low angle planes?

Ken

[Ken S]

 :)ps Contrats on your third star.

Ken

[Ken S]

oops, Make that congrats.

[Ken S]

I recently reread this thread. 

Steve has apparently moved on, but the information is still valid.

Jeff, have your Lie-Nielsen chisels ever ventured beyond the leather wrap?   I have since added two more (5/16 and 7/16) to my solitary 3/16.  They are still waiting to be called to duty.

Ken

[Ken S]

A ps:  Since this thread was written, Lee Valley has introduced a very nice line of chisels with their new wundersteel.  Omitting them from the original posts was only because they were not marketed at the time.

Ken

[Herman Trivilino]

Those are nice chisels, but the price!

[Ken S]

I have part of the box which came with my grandfather's Stanley 750 chisels circa 1935.  The prices ranged below and above a dollar, depending on the size.

I recall the Stanley 60 chisels I bought in the early seventies as being plus or minus ten dollars apiece.  This was when tuition, room and board for a year at a private college was less than three thousand dollars and when I bought my first house for twenty thousand dollars.  (It was an older two story three bedroom home in a respectable neighborhood.)

Now most Lie-Nielsen chisels cost fifty five dollars.  However, they come with either A2 or O1 steel, nice wooden handles, and backs which need very little attention.  I can't say the same for my faithful old Stanley 60 chisels with plastic handles and backs which are now flat after much sweat equity.

I, too, am reticent to spend that much for a chisel.  Likewise, I hate to spend twenty thousand dollars for a new car.  However, compared to the cost of everything else, I don't believe top drawer chisels are over priced (at least not more overpriced than everything else).......

Ken

[Herman Trivilino]

You're right about the comparisons in prices, Ken.  I just paid $24 for the very same used book I bought in college ca 1975 for $4.

The other factor to consider, though, is the proliferation of cheap tools.  We can buy a chisel for $10 now at the home center.  This would be like your grandfather paying 10 cents for a chisel!

I realize there's a difference in quality here, but I'm not sure the difference in price is worth the difference in quality.  To me, that is.  It's a personal choice.  I feel the same way about knives and capacitors.

[Ken S]

Herman,  I think we need to factor in our intended uses to get an idea of how we feel about price.  It seems to me chisels are no different than anything else that way. 

For letting in an occasional hinge, the big box chisels are certainly very adequate.  Someone who likes to hand cut dovetails might be more particular about the feel of a chisel and willing to pay more.

My old Stanley 60 chisels have served me very well at modest cost for many years.  While I have never intentionally abused them, they have occasionally seen some rough duty.  They have been used for things when I would not want to use a premium price chisel.

The problem with our generation is our memory data banks are filled with too many prices from years ago.  Having bought a house for twenty thousand dollars, paying that much for a car seems ridiculous.  Having bought a set of three nice old Bedrock planes for thirty five dollars, new planes seem quite dear.

Off topic:  I listened to a bit of NPR Science Friday.  The speaker was  Nobel Laureate Physicist who discovered the universe was not only expanding, but at a more accelerated rate than before.  I don't think we should let the universe get any larger until we can at least plug in our Tormeks when we visit Rob.......

Ken

[Rob]

Thats a really interesting perspective Ken....the notion that one's perception of the price versus value of goods changes in proportion to an increase in memory data.  I rather like that.

Essentially it means that pricing becomes increasingly relative the older one gets due to more comparison data being available....and about which to get depressed!

It would also neatly explain the "grumpy old man" syndrome we talk about here (in the UK I mean) frequently (and which I confess to being a fully fledged member :-)

I bet someone much cleverer than I could describe a math formula that had inflationary pressures and age as its factors to come up with a single expression

Manufacturers could cleverly target their marketing towards this "group".

Advertisers could classify social status in a new way....ABC1's, C2, D, E and....."grumpy old Cumudgeons"

Veritas chisels would cost $65 for an ABC1 and $6.50 for a G.O.C....we could carry id cards....a new society

:-)

[Ken S]

Good points, Rob.

In addition to the price memory banks, I believe as we mature we (sometimes) realize that more and better is not necessarily more productive.  If we examine two dovetailed drawers, the appearance and joinery will reflect the skill and care of the maker, not the brand or cost of the tools involved.

We are sometimes unrealistic about the quantity of work we will do with tools.  One of the very subtle marketing tools for the old premium dovetail jigs was being able to make forty drawers in an hour.  It appealed to our inner consumer.  In reality, most of us won't make more than forty drawers in our lives.

My grandson just awoke.  Back on duty.

Ken