a note to Steve (and the forum)

[Steve Brown]

Ionut,
Not to change the subject,  but I like the Shapton products, like the glass/diamond stones and their sharpening pond, but boy are they pricey. Any suggestions?
Because the Japanese chisels are hand forged and somewhat less regular than the Lie-Neilsen chisels, do you regard the Japanese chisels more tricky to sharpen?
But thank you on the steel info. Now is the time in my life to enjoy the finest I can afford. I think it's going to be either Lie-Neilsen or Japanese. To me it's like Martin or Gibson in guitars. Have you ever thought about making musical instruments?
Steve

[ionut]

Hi Steve,

I heard they are very good stones, I never used them, they seem to be too thin for what I was used with, they also say the stones  are harder and will not wear fast, if the stone is harder will remove steel slower but maybe they found a combination to server well both worlds, I don't know. I own a 800 King stone that I learned to sharpen with, great stone and not expensive, there is still lots of it left to be able to use it for year. That was replaced by a dragon Stone 1000 great stone a bit harder yet cutting aggressive enough, a 4000 King that didn't seem to get consumed, good price good performance, the 8000 I don't know what brand is it great stone not very expensive. As pond I used lunch plastic boxes, nothing fancy cheap and doing the job. A specialized pond would be nice but I never felt I needed one. All the stones are Japanese stones and I am really happy with them. If I would get a new set today it would definitely a 800, 4000, and 10000 all Naniwa, I tried once one and I really liked it, but until I don't consume what I have I am not buying any.
I'd like too but I don't have the musical part of knowledge to build good instruments.

Ionut

[Ken S]

Steve,

You are in a nice position.  After forty years of working and dreaming, you will be equipping your home workshop.  I am most happy for you.

If I might offer some advice in the spirit of the original post:  I believe you will be most happy with your choice of tools if you first acquire more knowledge.  I have been most fortunate in being able to have some very solid training (weekend workshops at the Conover School near me in Ohio).  There are probably similar schools in your area.

There is no shortage of good books and DVDs on woodworking.

Keeping with our discussion of using chisels as an example: When you do finally shop for chisels, you will be more satisfied with your purchases if they are based on knowledge and experience.  You will know at that point which chisels feel right in your hand and do the work you intend well.  You will have a working knowledge how different chisels sharpen, and how frequently they need to be resharpened.  Using your initial Japanese and Lie-Nielsen chisels will help you acquire this knowledge.

You are at a rare opportunity in life. I hope this time becomes a time of great joy and satisfaction for you.  Savor it.

Ken

[ionut]

Steve I forgot about yoru other question, no, there is no trick needed for the japanese chisels, the sharpending process is the same just shorter because of the advantages described in earlier posts.

Ionut

[Ken S]

Steve,
You mention the Shapton products.  I have some concerns regarding them.  They may be very fine products; I don't doubt that.

However, I notice that Lie-Nielsen no longer sells them.  (They sell DMT diamond plates and Norton water stones.)

Also, there are at least two different lines of Shapton stones for different steels, and, I believe, at least three generations. Too many unknowns to make an informed decision.  I would back away until I had a good handle on the situation.

From my working past, I never liked radical measures until I had seen moderate measures fail.  I would put  acquiring other sharpening products on the back burner until you have become quite proficient with your Tormek.  At that point, if the results do not satisfy you in some areas, look into other options.

Ionut has found a method which allows him to quickly sharpen his tools to a very high level and return to what he really loves, woodworking.

Ken

[Steve Brown]

Hi Ken,
I've ordered some Naniwa bench stones from 500 to 8000 to flatten the backs, and have ordered the Tormek 4000 Japanese waterstone to finish off the bevel. I have done the diamond grader on my Tormek wheel, sharpened a chisel at 220 and still not square. I even bought a little Groz engineer's square from Woodcraft to square the chisel in the jig, and still can't get it square. Not sure why, but I'll keep trying until I get it figured out. One thing I've found, that no one seems to talk about, and that is when you jig up the tool, don't move it in the jig until you're done sharprning. That includes when you touch up the stone in the 220 mode and when you go to the smoother 1000 mode. I found it best to leave the tool in place until you are totally finished with the sharpening. I also found that I don't like using the Tormek to flatten the back. Using a moving wheel to flatten does not seem to work for me. I've gotten too many divots. I'm going to try all flattening with bench stones, exclusively. I'll let you know.
Steve

[ionut]

Hi Steve,

Once you setup the tool in the jig and set the universal support for the correct bevel angle you do not touch the knobs clamping the tool, any change at this point done in the middle of sharpening will lead to wrong results.
About the square edge, beside what Jeff and I suggested earlier, when you deal with the universal support to lock it down whether you true the stone or sharpen, before locking the universal support press it down with one finger only, over the left post with the adjusting wheel, the universal support has a bit of play and the only reference point or surface that you can rely on is the adjusting wheel and the base in which the left post is being inserted. Don't press left or right of that point. I usually take out the jig after I set out the bevel angle press down, tighten the knobs and put the jib back.

Ionut

[tooljunkie]

This has become a very informative topic.

Has any one had experience with Hirsch Chisels?

I purchased a Hirsch Cranked Trimming Chisels & it seems to hold an edge very well.


http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=49944&cat=1,41504,41539

The one problem I read online was that they are beautifully polished to a mirror finish but this also means that you need to do allot of lapping of the back due to rounding during the polishing.

But I love the cranked blade design to keep the handle clear of the work surface.

Dan

[ionut]

Hi Dan,

I have a 3/4 and a 1/2, they are good chisels. they are hardened at 60 or 62 Rockwell and they indeed hold a good edge. They are extra polished which made the side corners round, but I didn't bother to flatten them to eliminate that bit of a round corner I just use them as they are and when I need a crispier corner I use a different chisel. But I found that as not being such a critical issue with the chisels.

Ionut

[Ken S]

Steve,

I believe you mentioned you had spent forty years in construction. (Is my 60 year old memory right?)

If so, your time correcting the "footer problem" (not grinding the chisel square) will be very spent.  There have been several posts about being out of square.

Enjoy your new sharpening gear.  Keep us posted.

Ken

[Steve Brown]

Thanks Ken, I will do that. How do you get the little smiley faces into the text?
Steve

[tooljunkie]

Thanks Ken, I will do that. How do you get the little smiley faces into the text?
Steve

You will see all the little smiley faces if you use the REPLY option from the blue bar to the right but if you use the Quick-Reply option you will not see them.
Just click on the face you want & it will appear at the point your cursor is at.

[Steve Brown]

Quick reply?

[tooljunkie]

Quick reply is the option found down to the lower left.
I believe you can still get the smileys but you need to know the key board code.

[Steve Brown]

Lower left? Keyboard code?