Steve,
Leonard Lee's Sharpening book has a very informative chapter on chisels, both Western and Japanese.
IMHO, it should be part of a sharpener's reference library.
Ken
Ken,
Do you have Ron Hock's book, "the Prefect Edge" ? If you do, how do they compare? Thanks for the chisel post. I was thimking about a Matsumura five eights.
Steve
I like Ken's idea of buying one chisel in several different styles to find the one that fits your shop best. Personally, I might lean toward a 3/4, rather than a 1/2, but that's just me. My problem is, I like them all. ::)
I have a set of Stanley #40s that I've had since they discontinued them in the early 1980s. They used to be the standard for shop classes everywhere. Nice long blades, with a comfortable handle and striking plate that doesn't become uncomfortable in your palm even if you smack them with a hammer now and then. I have a set of Ulmia chisels I've had since a few years before I was given the #40s. They're old friends. I have a handful of mismatched Japanese chisels, some nice, some cheap. I never became enamored enough with them to buy a whole set, but I have one Japanese paring chisel that I consider one of my finest hand tools. And a couple years ago my wife gave me a set of Lie-Nielsen's for Christmas -- they're really pretty in their tool roll. Maybe someday I'll break down and cut something with them. ;D
I agree with Ken, that thread became more like a sausage...
Steve, you are putting me in a not very comfortable situation with that question but I will be truthful and what I am saying is just related to my own experience and preference and nothing to do with the manufacturers. The steel in Lie-Nielsens I have is A2 the tools are very well made, they are really fine tools but... I like more the Japanese chisels.
The handles on the Lie-Nielsen ones are good but I would prefer a bit larger handles probably because I got used with them. I think they followed an old Stanley line of chisels.
Sorry, guys, but the chisel in my dream was definitely a half inch. Just kidding.....What I meant to say was a chisel size which is the one you grab most of the time. 1/2, 5/8, 3/4 all are fine.
Thanks, Jeff. I like the idea, too. I wish it was original. Whoever's idea it was originally, I think it is worth passing along.
Steve, I like Ron Hock's book. I have both in my library, and would recommend both to you. They complement each other. I'm a book buff, and recently, a DVD and you tube fan, also.
My Japanese fishtail chisel is a Matsumura. It's very nicely made; I would not hesitate to buy more. I enjoy reading the descriptions of the blacksmiths in The Japan Woodworker catalog. By comparison, western toolmakers seem boring and conventional. Go to work, make a good product, go home.
Jeff, your term "old friends" describes my feeling for many of my tools. I started with the 5/16" size Lie-Nielsen chisel because I thought is would work well with my grandfather's Stanleys. It does, and I suspect I will probably eventually add a full set. They are even nice outside of the leather wrap.
One design feature I appreciate in the Lie-Nielsen chisels is that all the bevel edge chisels from 1/8 to 3/4 use the same size handle. The same handle work with all but the largest mortise chisels as well. They also sell long handles (interchangeable) for paring.
Steve, please keep us posted on your chisel experiences.
Jeff, any wife who gives her husband chisels for Christmas was well chosen!
Ken
Ken,
What I can tell you is that Jeff was right, the blade was in the jig square, but apparently the steel was slightly tapered such that the bevel was not reading square to the stone, if that makes sense.
Interestingly enough, I believe the Japanese steel is actually Damascus steel which came from Damascus, Syria and became popular for making swords during the Crusades and reported by Aristotle as being in use as early as 400BC.
I think I'll buy a Japanese chisel and a Lie-Neilsen chisel and decide which I prefer.
Then I can tell my wife and kids what to get me for my birthday. I'm going to order Leonard Lees' book. Thanks, as always, Jeff and Ionut for your helpful input.
Steve
Steve,
When you are comparing the Japanese and Lie-Nielsen chisels, choose carefully. Chances are that whichever you choose will someday be passed on to your children and grandchildren. Tools, both good and not so good, can stick around for a long time.
Perhaps someone else can post good sites for learning more about the Japanese chisels. The lie-nielsen website has some excellent instructional you tubes, both about usage and sharpening. The sharpening technique shown is very solid. Do keep in mind that the instructor travels quite a bit. The Tormek, while a delight at home, might be like the traveling anvil salesman in The Music Man.
At the same time I ordered my chisel from Lie-Nielsen, I also ordered an extra long handle. The longer handles are designed for paring. Using both handles is shown in the L-N you tubes. I would only order one long handle, as the chisels generally use the same size handles.
When choosing your chisels, pay special attention to what your hands say. Some tools just fit well in your hands. Some don't. I would rather have a chisel with less than stellar steel which felt like an extension of my hands than a piece of superb steel which felt clunky.
Choose slowly.
Ken
Ionut,
We were posting at the same time last night. I believe you are sharing the most valuable knowledge we have, personal knowledge. Book learning is easily acquired. Listening to what our hands tell us is more difficult, and more precious.
Ken
Hi Ken,
I didn't notice that.
If you are referring to my comfort level in my previous post the things are staying somehow like this, as you probably noticed I am not a diplomatic or politically correct person. I think the politically correctness is the biggest lie ever invented and that is why I am tempted to throw the truth green in the face as I am able to take it myself as well, whether it is about Tormek, chisels or anything else. Japanese chisels and Lie-Nielsen chisels are premium chisel in my opinion, you can't go wrong with any, it happens that I prefer the Japanese ones but I am not an authority in woodworking or tools, so in this particular case Steve should make his mind, there are many things to like or to not like at this tools and he will find out using them. Your earlier suggestion is perfect and as I said in a previous post I have got first two Japanese ones and used them and not long after I started to complete my collection in small steps as neither of them are cheap. There are other things about them that I didn't talk before that may influence someone's actions, for example the machining of the Lie-Nielsen ones is close to perfect, parallel sides, parallel faces, narrow vertical sides, you can almost use any edge as a reference, the Japanese ones are different, as most of them they are made by hand, they may not have faces and sides at the same grade of precision, and this may be important for some users.
I think the best way is to get one of each and try them and when the decision has been made, forget about them and do some real work otherwise one will end comparing the tools all his life and forgeting about what these tools are supposed to do.
Ionut
I agree, Ionut. Steve, the ball is in your court. Enjoy.
Ken
Hey you two,
Nice take on the two types of chisels, Ionut by the way. Is it fair to say that lie-Neilsen chisels are predominately A-2, whereas the Japanese chisels are predominately Damascus type, in other words more leaning towards O-1? Seems like it should be easier to sharpen the Japanese chisels, except they're hand forged. I expect I'll find all this out in this lifetime and the I will report back.
Steve
Steve,
I would suggest ignoring the kind of steel in the chisels, as well as the cultural origins. See them just as two tools. Use them, sharpen them, use them some more and keep sharpening. Your hands will direct you to which you prefer. Have fun...there are worse things than using two fine tools.
Ken
Amen, Brother.
Steve
Hi Steve,
The following dissertation comes from the dark synaptic corners of my boned carcass so bear with me.
A2 and O1 are not two different types of steel they are different hardening procedures applied to the same type of steel which is HCS. The result of thes etwoe different treatments is a stronger steel with a larger steel grain in case of A2 and a bit lest strong but with a finer grain in case of O1, therefore the edge of an O1 treated steel will be always sharper than an A2 treated steel but will stand less as sharp. So when you choose between both of them there are many factors, initially I was always inclined toward A2 as you have to sharpen it less often than an O1 and my goal was to work the wood and not to sharpen as my sharpening was done on bench stones. It was also harder to sharpen the A2 treated steel than O1. Today if I have to get another edge tool I would definitely go more towards the O1.
Lie-Nielsen have their bench chisels if I remember correctly in both A2 and O1 so you can choose what you prefer. At the time when I got mine they had I believe only the A2 version, but I may be wrong.
About the Damascus Steel if it is more than just a legend all the attempts make it in modern times to duplicate the metal have failed. Today it just mimics the characteristics and appearance which resembles the water flow, of the legendary Damascus Steel. Coming back to the Japanese chisels not all of them are called Damascus, only the ones that are showing that specific pattern. Now traditionally, the Japanese chisels are laminated chisels, from two different steels, a hard steel that will form the cutting edge and a much softer steel that that is laminated to the other one. This technique allows for a much faster sharpening as most of the steel being sharpen is soft steel and only the one forming the cutting edge is the hard steel which you are interested to be of the highest quality possible. The most common and.
cheaper but not necessarily low quality chisels are ones that are using wrought iron (they say) for the body of the chisel which does not require lots of manufacturing time. The $$$ or $$$$ ones that are called Damascus which are pattern welded, where different carbon content steel sheets are welded and folded together during forging and mixed with different other metals to form a very strong steel, I don't know the details because they are secret . I am not sure if the Damascus pattern in those Japanese chisels is extending to the steel at that's made to form the cutting edge. When you see them you will distinctively see the Damascus pattern on the part that backs the real cutting steel in which case that thing has only aesthetical purpose. Damascus or not, there is another aspect that in my opinion is more important, usually the Japanese makers make their own steel and it really is a good quality steel, there are two versions blue and white steel, and based on what they say blue steel is more appropriate for hard American woods and the white ones would be used in softer woods. The quality of both steels is very high. When it comes to the hardness treatment I believe they use the are O1 but I cannot say for sure, but 2-3 more units more on the Rockwell scale compared with the usual 62 means a ton of more cuts in the wood. I think this can go on and on until there will be enough material to write a book but I should stop here.
We will most likely not find out everything in our lifetimes but you will be about to find out soon how well these two types of chisels cut.
"Have fun...there are worse things than using two fine tools" – not using them is one.
Ionut
Something that I missed, why legendary? because that pattern in the old steel was not coming from different sheets of metal worked together, they were supposed to be carbide clusters in the original steel that are responsible of that particular look and strength of the whatever was made in those time.
Ionut
Ionut,
Not to change the subject, but I like the Shapton products, like the glass/diamond stones and their sharpening pond, but boy are they pricey. Any suggestions?
Because the Japanese chisels are hand forged and somewhat less regular than the Lie-Neilsen chisels, do you regard the Japanese chisels more tricky to sharpen?
But thank you on the steel info. Now is the time in my life to enjoy the finest I can afford. I think it's going to be either Lie-Neilsen or Japanese. To me it's like Martin or Gibson in guitars. Have you ever thought about making musical instruments?
Steve
Hi Steve,
I heard they are very good stones, I never used them, they seem to be too thin for what I was used with, they also say the stones are harder and will not wear fast, if the stone is harder will remove steel slower but maybe they found a combination to server well both worlds, I don't know. I own a 800 King stone that I learned to sharpen with, great stone and not expensive, there is still lots of it left to be able to use it for year. That was replaced by a dragon Stone 1000 great stone a bit harder yet cutting aggressive enough, a 4000 King that didn't seem to get consumed, good price good performance, the 8000 I don't know what brand is it great stone not very expensive. As pond I used lunch plastic boxes, nothing fancy cheap and doing the job. A specialized pond would be nice but I never felt I needed one. All the stones are Japanese stones and I am really happy with them. If I would get a new set today it would definitely a 800, 4000, and 10000 all Naniwa, I tried once one and I really liked it, but until I don't consume what I have I am not buying any.
I'd like too but I don't have the musical part of knowledge to build good instruments.
Ionut
Steve,
You are in a nice position. After forty years of working and dreaming, you will be equipping your home workshop. I am most happy for you.
If I might offer some advice in the spirit of the original post: I believe you will be most happy with your choice of tools if you first acquire more knowledge. I have been most fortunate in being able to have some very solid training (weekend workshops at the Conover School near me in Ohio). There are probably similar schools in your area.
There is no shortage of good books and DVDs on woodworking.
Keeping with our discussion of using chisels as an example: When you do finally shop for chisels, you will be more satisfied with your purchases if they are based on knowledge and experience. You will know at that point which chisels feel right in your hand and do the work you intend well. You will have a working knowledge how different chisels sharpen, and how frequently they need to be resharpened. Using your initial Japanese and Lie-Nielsen chisels will help you acquire this knowledge.
You are at a rare opportunity in life. I hope this time becomes a time of great joy and satisfaction for you. Savor it.
Ken
Steve I forgot about yoru other question, no, there is no trick needed for the japanese chisels, the sharpending process is the same just shorter because of the advantages described in earlier posts.
Ionut
Steve,
You mention the Shapton products. I have some concerns regarding them. They may be very fine products; I don't doubt that.
However, I notice that Lie-Nielsen no longer sells them. (They sell DMT diamond plates and Norton water stones.)
Also, there are at least two different lines of Shapton stones for different steels, and, I believe, at least three generations. Too many unknowns to make an informed decision. I would back away until I had a good handle on the situation.
From my working past, I never liked radical measures until I had seen moderate measures fail. I would put acquiring other sharpening products on the back burner until you have become quite proficient with your Tormek. At that point, if the results do not satisfy you in some areas, look into other options.
Ionut has found a method which allows him to quickly sharpen his tools to a very high level and return to what he really loves, woodworking.
Ken
Hi Ken,
I've ordered some Naniwa bench stones from 500 to 8000 to flatten the backs, and have ordered the Tormek 4000 Japanese waterstone to finish off the bevel. I have done the diamond grader on my Tormek wheel, sharpened a chisel at 220 and still not square. I even bought a little Groz engineer's square from Woodcraft to square the chisel in the jig, and still can't get it square. Not sure why, but I'll keep trying until I get it figured out. One thing I've found, that no one seems to talk about, and that is when you jig up the tool, don't move it in the jig until you're done sharprning. That includes when you touch up the stone in the 220 mode and when you go to the smoother 1000 mode. I found it best to leave the tool in place until you are totally finished with the sharpening. I also found that I don't like using the Tormek to flatten the back. Using a moving wheel to flatten does not seem to work for me. I've gotten too many divots. I'm going to try all flattening with bench stones, exclusively. I'll let you know.
Steve
Hi Steve,
Once you setup the tool in the jig and set the universal support for the correct bevel angle you do not touch the knobs clamping the tool, any change at this point done in the middle of sharpening will lead to wrong results.
About the square edge, beside what Jeff and I suggested earlier, when you deal with the universal support to lock it down whether you true the stone or sharpen, before locking the universal support press it down with one finger only, over the left post with the adjusting wheel, the universal support has a bit of play and the only reference point or surface that you can rely on is the adjusting wheel and the base in which the left post is being inserted. Don't press left or right of that point. I usually take out the jig after I set out the bevel angle press down, tighten the knobs and put the jib back.
Ionut
This has become a very informative topic.
Has any one had experience with Hirsch Chisels?
I purchased a Hirsch Cranked Trimming Chisels & it seems to hold an edge very well.
(http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=49944&cat=1,41504,41539)
http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=49944&cat=1,41504,41539 (http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=49944&cat=1,41504,41539)
The one problem I read online was that they are beautifully polished to a mirror finish but this also means that you need to do allot of lapping of the back due to rounding during the polishing.
But I love the cranked blade design to keep the handle clear of the work surface.
Dan
Hi Dan,
I have a 3/4 and a 1/2, they are good chisels. they are hardened at 60 or 62 Rockwell and they indeed hold a good edge. They are extra polished which made the side corners round, but I didn't bother to flatten them to eliminate that bit of a round corner I just use them as they are and when I need a crispier corner I use a different chisel. But I found that as not being such a critical issue with the chisels.
Ionut
Steve,
I believe you mentioned you had spent forty years in construction. (Is my 60 year old memory right?)
If so, your time correcting the "footer problem" (not grinding the chisel square) will be very spent. There have been several posts about being out of square.
Enjoy your new sharpening gear. Keep us posted.
Ken
Thanks Ken, I will do that. How do you get the little smiley faces into the text?
Steve
Quote from: Steve Brown on February 07, 2011, 11:41:43 PM
Thanks Ken, I will do that. How do you get the little smiley faces into the text?
Steve
You will see all the little smiley faces if you use the REPLY option from the blue bar to the right but if you use the Quick-Reply option you will not see them.
Just click on the face you want & it will appear at the point your cursor is at.
Quick reply?
Quick reply is the option found down to the lower left.
I believe you can still get the smileys but you need to know the key board code.
:) ;) :D ;D >:( :( :o 8) ??? ::) :P :-[ :-X :-\ :-* :'(
Lower left? Keyboard code?
Quote from: Steve Brown on February 08, 2011, 03:45:16 AM
Lower left? Keyboard code?
If you use the Quote option you will not see the smiley faces.
Have a look at the user help
http://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=help (http://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=help)
Anybody using a "stone pond" like Veritas or Shapton? Or how 'bout a plastic lunch tray??
Steve
Hi Steve
I am using The Stone Pond by Veritas.
It does work good & is adjustable to fit different size stones & holds 2 stone ready & will hold 1 or 2 more in the bottom.
The stones in the holder do rock a bit but doesn't pose a problem.
I love the look of the Shapton Sharpening Pond but it looks like it may be very specific to fit their stone but I don't know for sure.
(http://javascript:PrevFoto('http://www.craftsmanstudio.com/images_p/Q00PONDB.jpg'))
The price is a little scary at $198.95.
The Stone Pond by Veritas is $62.50
The picture did not come through so I will send the ink to the page.
http://www.craftsmanstudio.com/html_p/Q00POND.htm (http://www.craftsmanstudio.com/html_p/Q00POND.htm)
Hi Ionut,
You still out there? Just wondering, when you go from the 1000 stone to the 4000 stone, do you leave the tool in the jig and just start sharpening, or do you have to re-adjust the tool for the different stone? I just got the 4000 yesterday. This could be a question for Jeff Farris, as well. Thanks,
Steve
If the diameters are different (and they are) you will have to readjust the Universal Support height, but there's no reason to make any adjustments to the jig.
Jeff,
I was thinking about this. The diameters of the wheels will surely be different. Maybe the best thing would be to use the magic marker to make the adjustment to the 4000, and as you say, not necessary to make any adjustments to the jig.
Steve
Of course I am here Steve, I am just pretty busy.
You will have to re-adjust the height of the universal support because the wheels are most likely different in size and also the wear rate would be different. What I do to minimize the setting time is first time after I finish with the 1000 setting is to find out the offset between the wheels by turns of the adjusting wheel of the universal support. I re-mark the bevel with the waterproof marker and follow the setting of the bevel angle procedure, making sure that I note how many turns and in what direction I have to move the adjusting wheel for the 4000 stone in order to polish the bevel left by the 1000. After that when I re-sharpen that tool or any other tool I just dial in the offset and I start honing with 4000. Once in a while you will have to re-check and update this offset, it is depending of how much sharpening you do especially whenever after truing any of the stones or whenever you see that the honing does not happen at the location you want, and most of the time you do that on the fly without the need to mark the bevel, for me this happens once in probably 4-6 months. When I switch from 1000 to 4000 I keep the tool in the straight jig without changing anything, not other setting change is required than the adjustment wheel.
Be careful with truing the 4000 stone and always take very small slices when you need to true it. I never go with depth of the cut larger than 1/12 of the adjusting wheel and if the truing is not complete I will continue with as many small passes as necessary. Also during use keep the stone clean or steel particles between sharpening session, use only the fine side of the grader stone and with light pressure holding the grader along with the grinding stone and not across it so the risk of taking it out of square is minimized. For cleaning and maintaining to stone you can also use a small 2/6 DMT (325-600 mesh even finer if you want) diamond stone clamped in the straight jig just like a tool. If you have to switch the wheels on one machine I would also advise as I said in a different post, changing the water in the trough or having a spare one with clean water for the 4000 one to avoid larger size particles form the 220/1000 stone to contaminate 4000 stone.
Ionut
Also Steve if you use the honing wheel after the 4000 minimize as much as possible the use of it on the freshly polished bevel on 4000, you only need few light swipes on the back and the bevel for cleaning the cutting edge from microscopic burr traces.
Ionut
Ionut,
Excellent feedback, thank you. I think I put it in my post to you, but in what container do you put the Naniwa stones while sharpening? I've bee looking at the Veritas and Shapton, but I don't really either one for various reasons. No rush on this if you're busy. Be well,
Steve
Hi Steve,
Don;t try to be to fancy with the stone container, at least I wasn't even though there are some practical aspects related to it, I still kept my things simple, so intialy I just used a large soup bowl to soak the stones and soon after I got my rear kicked so I started looking for a quick and "butt safe" solution, and I found it, an inexpensive lunch box in which I keep only the 1000 and 800 stones They are immersed all the way under water and the box has a cover. You do not need to keep the 4000 and 8000 soaked all the time, you can just sprinkle some water on the when you need that. When I use the coarse ones I just take them from the water (lunch box) and use them, when I am done I put them back in the box, that's pretty much what I do, that also forces me to keep the stone clean. At the end of the day it really doesn;t matter, find a clean container preferably plastic, if you intend to use a metallic one I guess that should be from some stainless steel, and have a proper cover for it.
Ionut
Ionut,
I didn't realize that the coarser stones need to stay immersed. That changes things. Thanks for the heads up.
Steve
Sorry , I probably put it in the wrong way, they don't need to be stored immersed in water but if they are dry before using, then you need to let the soak for few minutes until the stop releasing bubbles. At the time when I was doing my sharpening only with bench stones having to soak them every time before sharpening was a waste of time so I decided to keep them all the time immersed. Today I use them only when I flatten something or when I am playing around things but I still keep them like that. It is a matter of choice.
Ionut
Got it.
Steve
ps....Be sure to watch the sharpening and "large format block plane" you tubes on the Lie-Nielsen site. lots of solid info which works equally well with Lee Valley planes and other stones.
Ken
Thanks Ken, I'll check it out.
Steve
Steve,
Lee Valley has free shipping on orders over $40 until 3-28. It's a great time to fill in any overlooked small items. I plan to order one of their plane screwdrivers.
How goes it with our new low angle planes?
Ken
:)ps Contrats on your third star.
Ken
oops, Make that congrats.
I recently reread this thread.
Steve has apparently moved on, but the information is still valid.
Jeff, have your Lie-Nielsen chisels ever ventured beyond the leather wrap? I have since added two more (5/16 and 7/16) to my solitary 3/16. They are still waiting to be called to duty.
Ken
A ps: Since this thread was written, Lee Valley has introduced a very nice line of chisels with their new wundersteel. Omitting them from the original posts was only because they were not marketed at the time.
Ken
Those are nice chisels, but the price!
I have part of the box which came with my grandfather's Stanley 750 chisels circa 1935. The prices ranged below and above a dollar, depending on the size.
I recall the Stanley 60 chisels I bought in the early seventies as being plus or minus ten dollars apiece. This was when tuition, room and board for a year at a private college was less than three thousand dollars and when I bought my first house for twenty thousand dollars. (It was an older two story three bedroom home in a respectable neighborhood.)
Now most Lie-Nielsen chisels cost fifty five dollars. However, they come with either A2 or O1 steel, nice wooden handles, and backs which need very little attention. I can't say the same for my faithful old Stanley 60 chisels with plastic handles and backs which are now flat after much sweat equity.
I, too, am reticent to spend that much for a chisel. Likewise, I hate to spend twenty thousand dollars for a new car. However, compared to the cost of everything else, I don't believe top drawer chisels are over priced (at least not more overpriced than everything else).......
Ken
You're right about the comparisons in prices, Ken. I just paid $24 for the very same used book I bought in college ca 1975 for $4.
The other factor to consider, though, is the proliferation of cheap tools. We can buy a chisel for $10 now at the home center. This would be like your grandfather paying 10 cents for a chisel!
I realize there's a difference in quality here, but I'm not sure the difference in price is worth the difference in quality. To me, that is. It's a personal choice. I feel the same way about knives and capacitors.
Herman, I think we need to factor in our intended uses to get an idea of how we feel about price. It seems to me chisels are no different than anything else that way.
For letting in an occasional hinge, the big box chisels are certainly very adequate. Someone who likes to hand cut dovetails might be more particular about the feel of a chisel and willing to pay more.
My old Stanley 60 chisels have served me very well at modest cost for many years. While I have never intentionally abused them, they have occasionally seen some rough duty. They have been used for things when I would not want to use a premium price chisel.
The problem with our generation is our memory data banks are filled with too many prices from years ago. Having bought a house for twenty thousand dollars, paying that much for a car seems ridiculous. Having bought a set of three nice old Bedrock planes for thirty five dollars, new planes seem quite dear.
Off topic: I listened to a bit of NPR Science Friday. The speaker was Nobel Laureate Physicist who discovered the universe was not only expanding, but at a more accelerated rate than before. I don't think we should let the universe get any larger until we can at least plug in our Tormeks when we visit Rob.......
Ken
Thats a really interesting perspective Ken....the notion that one's perception of the price versus value of goods changes in proportion to an increase in memory data. I rather like that.
Essentially it means that pricing becomes increasingly relative the older one gets due to more comparison data being available....and about which to get depressed!
It would also neatly explain the "grumpy old man" syndrome we talk about here (in the UK I mean) frequently (and which I confess to being a fully fledged member :-)
I bet someone much cleverer than I could describe a math formula that had inflationary pressures and age as its factors to come up with a single expression
Manufacturers could cleverly target their marketing towards this "group".
Advertisers could classify social status in a new way....ABC1's, C2, D, E and....."grumpy old Cumudgeons"
Veritas chisels would cost $65 for an ABC1 and $6.50 for a G.O.C....we could carry id cards....a new society
:-)
Good points, Rob.
In addition to the price memory banks, I believe as we mature we (sometimes) realize that more and better is not necessarily more productive. If we examine two dovetailed drawers, the appearance and joinery will reflect the skill and care of the maker, not the brand or cost of the tools involved.
We are sometimes unrealistic about the quantity of work we will do with tools. One of the very subtle marketing tools for the old premium dovetail jigs was being able to make forty drawers in an hour. It appealed to our inner consumer. In reality, most of us won't make more than forty drawers in our lives.
My grandson just awoke. Back on duty.
Ken