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#1
General Tormek Questions / Re: Hollow ground messes up sw...
Last post by Ken S - Yesterday at 11:28:33 PMTwo thoughts:
The actual cutting is only done by the very edge of the blade. I agree with the secondary bevel. I understand the desire for the entire bevel to be shiny; however, this shine is mostly for looks. Spending time with the leather honing wheel will help narrow the gap.
A possibility is purchasing a new SG-200. That will make the two wheel diameters much closer. Use your present SG-200 for tools which don't require the SJ-200.
Ken
The actual cutting is only done by the very edge of the blade. I agree with the secondary bevel. I understand the desire for the entire bevel to be shiny; however, this shine is mostly for looks. Spending time with the leather honing wheel will help narrow the gap.
A possibility is purchasing a new SG-200. That will make the two wheel diameters much closer. Use your present SG-200 for tools which don't require the SJ-200.
Ken
#2
General Tormek Questions / Re: Hollow ground messes up sw...
Last post by Kemrot - Yesterday at 11:15:15 PMThanks for the advice. Yeah, that was was I was basically thinking. The Japanese stone seems to mostly polish the edge so I'll see how well I can get a secondary bevel on my chisels.
#3
General Tormek Questions / Re: Hollow ground messes up sw...
Last post by RichColvin - Yesterday at 10:53:22 PMI agree about using the micro bevel. It is a better practice anyway as it will use up less of your SJ grindstone.
Here's what I've compiled about micro bevels https://sharpeninghandbook.info/MicroBevels.html.
Here's what I've compiled about micro bevels https://sharpeninghandbook.info/MicroBevels.html.
#4
General Tormek Questions / Re: 10 inch honing wheel for T...
Last post by Dan - Yesterday at 04:40:40 PMQuote from: Rossy66 on Yesterday at 12:19:57 PM...As I said in the beginning, my goal is not to offend or disrespect anyone and maybe I shouldn't have asked the same question multiple times as I have gotten some great information from this forum but, I feel a controlled honing system would out perform a freehand one, the guy's at Tormek even say so in their videos.Pretty sure no one is offended or disrespected. You asked a similar question multiple times and got lots of answers.
I hope this post is taken in the spirit of education on my part and as mentioned in my previous posts, a 250mm honing wheel would negate the need to remove the grinding wheel when using the KS-123 to set the same angle when honing using the US, this may only work with the diamond wheels as the do not change in diameter, not sure how that would work on the stone wheels as they get smaller. Thanks.
It seems to me that you have or had unrealistic expectations. Machine 'X' should be like this and do this... and still you want a simplistic answer to an unrealistic suggestion "a 250mm honing wheel would negate the need to remove the grinding wheel when using the KS-123 to set the same angle when honing using the US'
It has already been explained why the honing wheel on the T8 is not 250mm. As has been suggested, if you want to, you can buy a 250mm honing wheel and mount it on the machine.
It is not going to change the fundamental problem that you have either. So why keep repeating the same thing?
You just appear to want the T8 to be something it is not.
In reality, sharpening is much more nuanced and complicated than you seem to want it to be. Especially on a machine which caters for a huge range of blades - from tools of all sorts, knives and others. The T8 is how it is and you either accept it how it is or do something about it instead if you don't like it.
There are heaps of other sharpening systems out there just made specifically for knives which are able to give excellent results if you don't want to use the T8.
I, and others, have given you concrete solutions to have a "controlled honing system" while using the T8 at specific exact angles and yet you don't seem to want to entertain these ideas.
Danny
#5
General Tormek Questions / Re: Hollow ground messes up sw...
Last post by tgbto - Yesterday at 04:22:52 PMIf you're willing to go down this rabbit hole, you will want to check this thread, which includes a useful spreadsheet in the first post, along with very a detailed discussion of how it was elaborated by @Gilles.
#6
Knife Sharpening / Re: Knife modification - Spyde...
Last post by kwakster - Yesterday at 04:20:40 PMIt was actually a project to find out if it was possible to change a saber grind blade into a hollow grind blade, and do it completely cold on the Tormek.
I had never tried this before, and although not perfect in execution it did work.
A diamond wheel would most likely have done a better & faster job, but the SB-250 Blackstone was and is all i have.
The clamp i used can be seen here:
https://forum.tormek.com/index.php/topic,4780.msg34190.html#msg34190
Rhe window cleaner helps to keep the pores of the SB-250 stone open, which is especially helpful when not enough force is applied to the stone surface to release fresh grits at a normal rate.
Which would occur when just sharpening a new edge, but much less so when grinding wider surfaces.
What i was after was the best material removal rate i could get together with the smallest change in stone diameter during the process.
I had never tried this before, and although not perfect in execution it did work.
A diamond wheel would most likely have done a better & faster job, but the SB-250 Blackstone was and is all i have.
The clamp i used can be seen here:
https://forum.tormek.com/index.php/topic,4780.msg34190.html#msg34190
Rhe window cleaner helps to keep the pores of the SB-250 stone open, which is especially helpful when not enough force is applied to the stone surface to release fresh grits at a normal rate.
Which would occur when just sharpening a new edge, but much less so when grinding wider surfaces.
What i was after was the best material removal rate i could get together with the smallest change in stone diameter during the process.
#7
General Tormek Questions / Re: 10 inch honing wheel for T...
Last post by tgbto - Yesterday at 04:16:49 PMJust my $.04 :
With regards to removing the leather wheel being a breeze, I agree ... with a caveat : if you need to remove the leather wheel when sharpening, you probably also need to remove the grindstone when honing with a jig, right ? This was the whole reason behind the "hone your knives freehand at an angle" method before the KS-123 was advertised for honing. And when the KS-123 was demonstrated, Sebastian had to remove the grinding wheel.
Well, it doesn't rely (much) on feel for planer blades or drill bits. But knives are an entirely different matter anyway : aside from the occasional Nakiri (and even then... but I digress), I don't know of many knives that are perfect rectangles from blade heel to blade tip. So the protrusion distance varies, and so does the angle when you hold your knife in a jig resting on the USB.
Moreover, due to blade geometry choices discussed at length on this forum and countless others, some knives require just lifting the blade when coming closer to the tip, some require combining this with a clockwise rotation of the blade, some with a counterclokwise rotation. And that even further depends on your choices as a sharpener : constant edge angle, constant bevel width, or something in between.
So even with a 250mm honing wheel you will have removed only one step requiring "feel". One step which, as @WimSpi pointed out, can also be streamlined with the Tormek honing wheel at the expense of using more accessories or even calculators.
There will still be many factors requiring decision-making, feel, skill and experience that no jig will help you with.
Those are much more critical than a couple degrees difference when honing : you won't "negate all the work done in the sharpening stage by a very basic mistake by rolling over the edge" with small, short variations : at worst, you will degrade your initiel BESS score but your overall edge retention should be fine if you're not careless. You *will* mess up a knife by not caring what you do beside the flat part of the blade. Same thing if you don't hone (^^) your skills when it comes to laying down the blade on the grindstone properly, or adjust sharpening pressure, or lateral speed, or ...
And although I hone as much as possible at a controlled angle, I am glad I have spent time honing freehand as it allows me to estimate how efficient my controlled honing step is, using the visual and tactiles cues mentioned by @Herman_Trivilino.
With regards to removing the leather wheel being a breeze, I agree ... with a caveat : if you need to remove the leather wheel when sharpening, you probably also need to remove the grindstone when honing with a jig, right ? This was the whole reason behind the "hone your knives freehand at an angle" method before the KS-123 was advertised for honing. And when the KS-123 was demonstrated, Sebastian had to remove the grinding wheel.
Quote from: Rossy66 on Yesterday at 12:19:57 PMI have spoken to a few of my engineer friends and they have the same opinion, a machine that has jigs and is designed and sold as a "precision" sharpening system relies on "feel" for what I have read and watched as possibly the most important sharpening steps in the process.
Well, it doesn't rely (much) on feel for planer blades or drill bits. But knives are an entirely different matter anyway : aside from the occasional Nakiri (and even then... but I digress), I don't know of many knives that are perfect rectangles from blade heel to blade tip. So the protrusion distance varies, and so does the angle when you hold your knife in a jig resting on the USB.
Moreover, due to blade geometry choices discussed at length on this forum and countless others, some knives require just lifting the blade when coming closer to the tip, some require combining this with a clockwise rotation of the blade, some with a counterclokwise rotation. And that even further depends on your choices as a sharpener : constant edge angle, constant bevel width, or something in between.
So even with a 250mm honing wheel you will have removed only one step requiring "feel". One step which, as @WimSpi pointed out, can also be streamlined with the Tormek honing wheel at the expense of using more accessories or even calculators.
There will still be many factors requiring decision-making, feel, skill and experience that no jig will help you with.
Those are much more critical than a couple degrees difference when honing : you won't "negate all the work done in the sharpening stage by a very basic mistake by rolling over the edge" with small, short variations : at worst, you will degrade your initiel BESS score but your overall edge retention should be fine if you're not careless. You *will* mess up a knife by not caring what you do beside the flat part of the blade. Same thing if you don't hone (^^) your skills when it comes to laying down the blade on the grindstone properly, or adjust sharpening pressure, or lateral speed, or ...
And although I hone as much as possible at a controlled angle, I am glad I have spent time honing freehand as it allows me to estimate how efficient my controlled honing step is, using the visual and tactiles cues mentioned by @Herman_Trivilino.
#8
Knife Sharpening / Re: Free disposable blade prot...
Last post by smcinco - Yesterday at 04:12:01 PMSorry these have been claimed locally
#9
General Tormek Questions / Re: 10 inch honing wheel for T...
Last post by WimSpi - Yesterday at 01:46:50 PMThere are two options. The first involves using the Tormek leather wheel, which has a slightly smaller diameter. In this case, you need to adjust the angle slightly with the KS-123, as the wheel diameter is smaller.
If you don't want to do this, you can use the 250 mm leather wheel, as mentioned here. That's the one I use too. When sharpening a long knife, you'll need to take it off for a moment. No problem, it's back on in a jiffy. With my 250 mm leather wheel, there's also a margin when you buy it, meaning the diameter can be a millimetre larger or smaller. So the KS-123 comes in handy again.
But there are also situations with my 250 mm leather wheel where I need to adjust the angle slightly, because the type of steel needs to be honed at a slightly larger angle (example: sharpening at 15 degrees and honing at 16 degrees). So the KS-123 comes into play again.
I think it's a utopian-dream to assume that there's ever a situation where both the grinding wheel and the leather wheel always use the same grinding angle and where the leather wheel can always remain on the Tormek.
If you don't want to do this, you can use the 250 mm leather wheel, as mentioned here. That's the one I use too. When sharpening a long knife, you'll need to take it off for a moment. No problem, it's back on in a jiffy. With my 250 mm leather wheel, there's also a margin when you buy it, meaning the diameter can be a millimetre larger or smaller. So the KS-123 comes in handy again.
But there are also situations with my 250 mm leather wheel where I need to adjust the angle slightly, because the type of steel needs to be honed at a slightly larger angle (example: sharpening at 15 degrees and honing at 16 degrees). So the KS-123 comes into play again.
I think it's a utopian-dream to assume that there's ever a situation where both the grinding wheel and the leather wheel always use the same grinding angle and where the leather wheel can always remain on the Tormek.
#10
General Tormek Questions / Re: 10 inch honing wheel for T...
Last post by Rossy66 - Yesterday at 12:19:57 PMI hope this doesn't come off as arrogant or disrespectful but I am very surprised at a lot of the replies to this question. I have spoken to a few of my engineer friends and they have the same opinion, a machine that has jigs and is designed and sold as a "precision" sharpening system relies on "feel" for what I have read and watched as possibly the most important sharpening steps in the process. The KS-123 is sold as "KS-123 Knife Angle Setter, Set the exact sharpening angle for any type of knife" that's from Tomek's web site and the micro adjust on the US for precision and all the machines, this from the T8 page, "Exact repeatability– sharpen your tools with unbeatable precision"
So with all of this "precision" why leave the honing, which is probably the most important part of sharpening, to be done by hand? surely you would want this as controlled as possible, especially since you can negate all the work done in the sharpening stage by a very basic mistake by rolling over the edge and having to start all over again. As a certified Professional Plant Based Chef who now is trying to start a sharpening business, I sharpened my Japanese knives on stones and although I felt like I did a pretty good job at sharpening them, the finish and edge consistency I get from my T8 is nothing short of spectacular and my knives keep a sharp edge way longer than when I free hand.
As I said in the beginning, my goal is not to offend or disrespect anyone and maybe I shouldn't have asked the same question multiple times as I have gotten some great information from this forum but, I feel a controlled honing system would out perform a freehand one, the guy's at Tormek even say so in their videos.
I hope this post is taken in the spirit of education on my part and as mentioned in my previous posts, a 250mm honing wheel would negate the need to remove the grinding wheel when using the KS-123 to set the same angle when honing using the US, this may only work with the diamond wheels as the do not change in diameter, not sure how that would work on the stone wheels as they get smaller. Thanks.
So with all of this "precision" why leave the honing, which is probably the most important part of sharpening, to be done by hand? surely you would want this as controlled as possible, especially since you can negate all the work done in the sharpening stage by a very basic mistake by rolling over the edge and having to start all over again. As a certified Professional Plant Based Chef who now is trying to start a sharpening business, I sharpened my Japanese knives on stones and although I felt like I did a pretty good job at sharpening them, the finish and edge consistency I get from my T8 is nothing short of spectacular and my knives keep a sharp edge way longer than when I free hand.
As I said in the beginning, my goal is not to offend or disrespect anyone and maybe I shouldn't have asked the same question multiple times as I have gotten some great information from this forum but, I feel a controlled honing system would out perform a freehand one, the guy's at Tormek even say so in their videos.
I hope this post is taken in the spirit of education on my part and as mentioned in my previous posts, a 250mm honing wheel would negate the need to remove the grinding wheel when using the KS-123 to set the same angle when honing using the US, this may only work with the diamond wheels as the do not change in diameter, not sure how that would work on the stone wheels as they get smaller. Thanks.