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#1
Knife Sharpening / Re: Sharpen workflow for ‘mid-...
Last post by WimSpi - Today at 08:36:53 PMThank you for your answers. That's very helpful. For me, it's also important to be able to carry out this type of grinding work at a reasonable pace. I also think standardization (reducing variation and making processes repeatable) is important in this regard.
Any further tips are very welcome.
Any further tips are very welcome.
#2
Knife Sharpening / Re: Toremk stone
Last post by Dan - Today at 08:40:16 AMI see one main difficulty with this. How does one measure the grit size precisely in this dynamic grit changing situation.
I think many of us here are used to the stone becoming smoother or rougher with either the stone grader or diamond plates (I have both) but measuring these figures seems pretty arbitrary really. We have no idea if the 250 or 1000 grit is actually accurate or not.
The stone seems to be the roughest just after using the diamond truing tool. It does not stay like that long though.
I think many of us here are used to the stone becoming smoother or rougher with either the stone grader or diamond plates (I have both) but measuring these figures seems pretty arbitrary really. We have no idea if the 250 or 1000 grit is actually accurate or not.
The stone seems to be the roughest just after using the diamond truing tool. It does not stay like that long though.
#3
Knife Sharpening / Re: Toremk stone
Last post by tgbto - Today at 08:29:08 AMI'm not an abrasive specialist, but in my experience, the "grading" of the stone lasts about an order of magnitude of around 20-40 strokes. Longer knives (obviously) or higher pressure will be in the 15-20 strokes range. And the way it goes back to its "in-between" state is not linear : very coarse or very fine grit lasts only for a couple strokes.
So it does not go from coarse to fine but from coarse back to standard and fine back to standard. It gets coarser by removing Al2O3 particles and exposing fewer, fresher ones with sharp edges. It gets finer by creating a fine slurry that fills in the gaps and makes the stone smoother.
In any case you have a substrate of Al203 particles of a given average size and even if you applied a very fine diamond stone you would still feel the effect of the substrate. Plus the finer the particles, the quicker they'll wash away.
TL/DR : the particle size in the SG gives its standard performance, you can make it vary temporarily by creating ridges or filling in the gaps. The farther you go from its standard state, the shorter the new state lasts.
So it does not go from coarse to fine but from coarse back to standard and fine back to standard. It gets coarser by removing Al2O3 particles and exposing fewer, fresher ones with sharp edges. It gets finer by creating a fine slurry that fills in the gaps and makes the stone smoother.
In any case you have a substrate of Al203 particles of a given average size and even if you applied a very fine diamond stone you would still feel the effect of the substrate. Plus the finer the particles, the quicker they'll wash away.
TL/DR : the particle size in the SG gives its standard performance, you can make it vary temporarily by creating ridges or filling in the gaps. The farther you go from its standard state, the shorter the new state lasts.
#4
Knife Sharpening / Re: Toremk stone
Last post by Ken S - Today at 07:29:44 AMSir Amwell captured my thought: "This is interesting".
I believe the SG has several underappreciated advantages. Unlike diamond or CBN superabrasive wheels, the abrasive runs all the way through the useful range of the wheel. Yes, the wheel does need occasional truing and dressing. Or, this could be restated to saying that the SG can be trued and dressed. For the majority of the fifty years of Tormek, this was never a big deal.
Along with truing and dressing, the SG can also be reshaped. The most common uses of this feature is putting a radius on the two corners of the wheel and grinding out chips in the wheel. I now make radiused corners on my SG as part of routine mtce.
I think the Stone Grader is an essential feature. It allows one grinding wheel to serve as both a coarse and a fine wheel. I also think it was designed before superabrasive wheels were used. Our late member, Wootz, introduced using inexpensive diamond plates as a more versatile alternative. Here is a link to his video:
https://youtu.be/141hD1d1zj0?si=GiyEMIY2L1htLf03
I modified his method slightly by epoxying DMT file cards onto flat pieces of aluminum. A 24" piece from the hardware store can be cut into three pieces. Mounting this into a square edge jig keeps things square.
These diamond plates are inexpensive and available in different grits. I had no trouble resurfacing my SG smoother than "1000 grit" although 10k seems like an enjoyable pipe dream. These diamond plates work well with the SG, SJ and SB wheels. As Wootz noted, using them helps keep the wheel true longer.
Try it; I think you will like it.
Ken
I believe the SG has several underappreciated advantages. Unlike diamond or CBN superabrasive wheels, the abrasive runs all the way through the useful range of the wheel. Yes, the wheel does need occasional truing and dressing. Or, this could be restated to saying that the SG can be trued and dressed. For the majority of the fifty years of Tormek, this was never a big deal.
Along with truing and dressing, the SG can also be reshaped. The most common uses of this feature is putting a radius on the two corners of the wheel and grinding out chips in the wheel. I now make radiused corners on my SG as part of routine mtce.
I think the Stone Grader is an essential feature. It allows one grinding wheel to serve as both a coarse and a fine wheel. I also think it was designed before superabrasive wheels were used. Our late member, Wootz, introduced using inexpensive diamond plates as a more versatile alternative. Here is a link to his video:
https://youtu.be/141hD1d1zj0?si=GiyEMIY2L1htLf03
I modified his method slightly by epoxying DMT file cards onto flat pieces of aluminum. A 24" piece from the hardware store can be cut into three pieces. Mounting this into a square edge jig keeps things square.
These diamond plates are inexpensive and available in different grits. I had no trouble resurfacing my SG smoother than "1000 grit" although 10k seems like an enjoyable pipe dream. These diamond plates work well with the SG, SJ and SB wheels. As Wootz noted, using them helps keep the wheel true longer.
Try it; I think you will like it.
Ken
#5
Knife Sharpening / Re: Sharpen workflow for ‘mid-...
Last post by Rossy - Yesterday at 11:36:58 PMI am still working on my workflow but with the help of people here and extensive research on many sites, my current workflow is as follows:
Unless requested by the customer, I use the marker method for the angle, if the customer want it reprofiled, I choose 15 degrees.
I use the DF250 diamond wheel and I have to say, It gives a great edge/finish
I always failed at free hand honing but once I bought the MB102 and used it to recreate the sharpening angle for honing, not only do my knifes fell sharper and cut better but my customers seem to be very happy and I am getting great feedback. I also use the composite wheel.
I currently do not sharpen high-end knives and would have to rethink my workflow for that but up to now, my clients seem very happy.
Unless requested by the customer, I use the marker method for the angle, if the customer want it reprofiled, I choose 15 degrees.
I use the DF250 diamond wheel and I have to say, It gives a great edge/finish
I always failed at free hand honing but once I bought the MB102 and used it to recreate the sharpening angle for honing, not only do my knifes fell sharper and cut better but my customers seem to be very happy and I am getting great feedback. I also use the composite wheel.
I currently do not sharpen high-end knives and would have to rethink my workflow for that but up to now, my clients seem very happy.
#6
Knife Sharpening / Re: Toremk stone
Last post by Sir Amwell - Yesterday at 10:46:32 PMThis is interesting.
Just being a bit hypothetical here on in.
Is it a given that the standard SG250 wheel, if graded to coarse, will gradually tend to fine if used to grind a knife?
How gradual is this?
If one was to keep grinding on and on, adjusting the USB as the stone wore down so as to maintain a constant angle.
How fine a grit on the stone could we achieve? ie original posters question?
And of course (re Ken's post) it's a bit arbitrary .
But could we ever turn an SG250 into a 10k stone?
Or are the abrasive particles 'set' to only effectively grind at the 1k mark.
I suppose I'm just waffling on and fleshing out the original posters question.
Do we really need loads of diamond or CBN wheels of different grits or do we just need a range of different grit 'cheap' diamond plates and the one SG250 stone?
Hmmmmm.
I think I need to go to bed......
Just being a bit hypothetical here on in.
Is it a given that the standard SG250 wheel, if graded to coarse, will gradually tend to fine if used to grind a knife?
How gradual is this?
If one was to keep grinding on and on, adjusting the USB as the stone wore down so as to maintain a constant angle.
How fine a grit on the stone could we achieve? ie original posters question?
And of course (re Ken's post) it's a bit arbitrary .
But could we ever turn an SG250 into a 10k stone?
Or are the abrasive particles 'set' to only effectively grind at the 1k mark.
I suppose I'm just waffling on and fleshing out the original posters question.
Do we really need loads of diamond or CBN wheels of different grits or do we just need a range of different grit 'cheap' diamond plates and the one SG250 stone?
Hmmmmm.
I think I need to go to bed......
#7
Knife Sharpening / Re: Toremk stone
Last post by Trappeur88 - Yesterday at 06:46:36 PMInexpensive diamond cards are a good way to expand the grit range of the non diamond Tormek grinding wheels.
Ken
Thank you, that's what I wanted to talk about. Can diamond cards give other grain sizes to the standard Tormek grinding wheel?
#8
Knife Sharpening / Re: Sharpen workflow for ‘mid-...
Last post by tgbto - Yesterday at 04:09:49 PMHello WimSpi,
I don't use my diamonds wheels for knives much, but after a bit of experimenting with grading the SG or not, using the SJ or not, I settled with the following simple process for everything but very high end kitchen knives :
Sharpen @15dps on ungraded SG, hone thoroughly @15.5dps on leather wheel with PA-70 compound starting on the same side as the last stroke on SG.
If you have diamond wheels and a 250mm leather honing wheel I'd suggest : Sharpen @15dps edge leading on DF wheel, then hone edge trailing on leather with PA-70, using MB-102 or FVB, increasing the USB height by a half turn of the MicroAdjust nut. This should be a rather quick workflow, maybe not with the smoothest-looking edge, but with pretty decent cutting performance and edge retention.
I don't use my diamonds wheels for knives much, but after a bit of experimenting with grading the SG or not, using the SJ or not, I settled with the following simple process for everything but very high end kitchen knives :
Sharpen @15dps on ungraded SG, hone thoroughly @15.5dps on leather wheel with PA-70 compound starting on the same side as the last stroke on SG.
If you have diamond wheels and a 250mm leather honing wheel I'd suggest : Sharpen @15dps edge leading on DF wheel, then hone edge trailing on leather with PA-70, using MB-102 or FVB, increasing the USB height by a half turn of the MicroAdjust nut. This should be a rather quick workflow, maybe not with the smoothest-looking edge, but with pretty decent cutting performance and edge retention.
#9
Knife Sharpening / Sharpen workflow for ‘mid-rang...
Last post by WimSpi - Yesterday at 04:04:56 PMHigh-quality knives are not for everyone. Nevertheless, I want to sharpen knives for these people too, and I am looking for a good workflow that suits this purpose. (So we are not talking about knives at the very bottom of the market, which are almost impossible to get sharp.)
(1) What is a common cutting angle for sharpening kitchen knives, paring knives, etc.?
(2) What does a good sharpening workflow look like? I have diamond discs from Tormel, an HR felt wheel, and a leather wheel (all 250 mm).
(3) Other useful tips for achieving a reasonably sharp knife within a certain amount of time.
So this is not about the well-known (top) brands, but about people who use 'mid-range' products. I would also like to sharpen knives for these people.
I am curious to hear your answers.
Wim
(1) What is a common cutting angle for sharpening kitchen knives, paring knives, etc.?
(2) What does a good sharpening workflow look like? I have diamond discs from Tormel, an HR felt wheel, and a leather wheel (all 250 mm).
(3) Other useful tips for achieving a reasonably sharp knife within a certain amount of time.
So this is not about the well-known (top) brands, but about people who use 'mid-range' products. I would also like to sharpen knives for these people.
I am curious to hear your answers.
Wim
#10
Scissors Sharpening / Re: The way I found to sharpen...
Last post by tgbto - Yesterday at 08:22:18 AMWouldn't the interference problem be solved by separating the blades ?