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Rick,

I used your earlier idea, but with this pin vise:

How did that work?  I never actually tried it - never go around to turning down the hex handle to round. 

Rick

Why in the world would anyone use any wheel dry on a Tormek?  Completely eliminates one of the benefits of even having a Tormek.  As Ken mentioned, early on, some CBN wheels rusted when used in water.  I have two of the CBN wheels where the warranty would be voided if used in water.  I've been using one, in water with the Tormek ACC solution, a 180 grit, on my T8, for 5 or 6 years with not one speck of rust.  I just recently added an 80 grit CBN wheel, used in the same manner. 

Another reason I would never use any grinding wheel dry on a Tormek is the damage the grinding grit can do to the cast zinc Tormek jigs, in particular the DBS-22 Drill Bit Sharpening Jig.  I had the DBS set up on a slow speed bench grinder and an 8" dia., 80 grit CBN wheel.  I found out quickly that the grinding grit was getting in the sliding surfaces and causing wear.  Not doing that anymore and is why I got the same 80 grit CBN wheel in 250mm diameter for the T8 so I could have the fast metal removal, in water, without damaging the jigs. 

Rick:
As I feared, while the Pin Vice clamps and allows sufficient clearance at the grind wheel face. The back end of the Drill bit is not supported sufficiently to provide the required centricity for sharpening.
Essentially the drill bit requires total support in the same way the DBS-22 supports bits larger then 3mm.
So this means a clamp similar in nature to the DBS-22 drill bit clamp perhaps a simplified slip in sub assembly which will cradle the drill bit in its full length from 3t5 mm of the grinding wheel to the fullest length of the bit shank.
A Pin Vice or a collet only provides clamping and support at the forward end of the drill bit which becomes very apparent when you begin the sharpening process of the sub 3mm drill bits.
This is a bit disappointing however perhaps someone else will step forward with another suggestion to aid us all in the pursuit of Sub 3mm drill bit sharpening
Thanks for Listening

This is a very old thread, but I may have found a solution to the dilema courierdog presents.  I have just received an ER8 spring collet set that has collets from 2 to 5 mm internal diameter, in 0.5mm increments.  These collets are full ID their full length, which is a little over 14mm (~9/16").  This isn't real long, but it may be long enough to have enough bearing length over the flutes to hold the drills in good alignment without shifting.  I haven't had a chance to try them yet.  And the collet chuck shaft is longer than the length of the DBS-22 drill bit jig clamp/holder and is perfectly round its full length.  Should be perfect for holding and adjusting for drill bit projection and flute alignment.

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At some point, I'll make time to give them a try and will report on how it goes.  I still have my doubts as there is enough movement (slop) in the DBS-22 sliding platform and the drill bit holder/clamp that it may still not work well for small drill bits. 

Could someone post a link to the actual class video under discussion here, please?  I've looked at their YT web site and not found this.  The latest video I could find is the "Tormek Way" which I know is not it. 

Thanks,

Rick

Does the wheel actually wobble on the shaft, or is the wobble due to the shape of the wheel itself?  If the wheel is loose on the shaft and wobbles, it may be that the arbor hole has worn and/or is no longer round.  If it does not wobble on the shaft, and the sides of the wheel wobble, as shown in your video, that would appear to be the result of the shape of the wheel. 

I've read a few times here in the forum the opinion that side wobble, even as much as shown in your video does not really adversely affect sharpening, as long as the outside diameter (OD) of the wheel can be trued, presumably using the Tormek Truing Tool.  Do you have one of those and have you tried truing OD, which is the only surface that matters on that type of stone. 

Not sure I'd go for that job.  Much depends on your setup and experience.  What equipment do you have?  Do you already have the drill bit sharpening jig and have you used it?  What grinding wheels do you have?  Just the standard SG-250?  SB-250?  Any diamond or CBN wheels?  How many drill bits have you sharpened? 

If you had the jig and had sharpened a few drill bits with the equipment you have, I's suspect you already have a good sense of the task. 

The standard SG wheel is really not adequate for the task. Most decent drill bits are High Speed Steel (HSS).  Tormek came out with the SB wheel specifically for the task of sharpening HSS because the SG won't "cut it".  I found the SB wheel wasn't agressive enough and went searching for be other alternatives.  I went through several, including Tormek diamond wheels (DC), 180 CBN grit, standard bench grinding wheel fitted to the Tormek and running in water (T8), slow speed bench grinder fitted with Tormek tool rests/jig, variable speed belt grinder fitted with Tormek tool rests/jig.  My last acquisition is a 250mm diameter, 80 grit CBN wheel on the T8.  This last one appears to be aggressive enough, but I haven't tried it with drill bits yet (worked great on plane blades). 

Even so, I think the Tormek may be too slow for this sort of volume task.  I think a better alternative would be something like the Vevor MR-13 A or B sharpener, depending on if you want to be able to web-thin (A model) or split-point (B Model).  About the same price range as the Tormek drill bit jig (if you don't have it yet) but way faster, particularly for volume work.   

The grind finish is not nearly as nice as factory or what can be achieved with a full suite of Tormek wheels, but adequate.  It is most effective at rapid metal removal (something the Tormek is weak on) and I suspect given the quantity you're looking at, many of the bits will be burned/chipped/broken and require a lot of metal removal. I use the Vevor Model B for roughing bits and finish them on the Tormek, but I doubt I'd try doing that for such a large quantity of bits as you are looking at. 

You are on this forum and there is a drill bit sharpening specific subforum, so go there and do a bunch of reading about what others have experienced.  I've posted a bunch there.  Also, there are several discussions on metal machining forum and quite a few YouTube videos reviewing drill bit sharpening like the Vevor. 

Alan Holtham does an excellent job demonstrating how the Tormek jig works here, but that is not the whole story.  Mr. Pete does a great job demonstrating the Vevor sharpeners, Model A and Model B.

Rick

True it enough to clean up to outer surface and chamfer/radius the corners, putting a larger radius on the chipped side and use it. 

I suffered what I thought was a fatal accidental fall of my SJ-250 when the table it was on collapsed at a farmers market in 2018.  I posted about it here then.  I've been using it ever since with not one single issue due to the cracks and chips. 

Here it is three years after
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And here it is in 2024
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With a little bit of time, the acetone evaporated and the cracks closed back up and are barely discernible now.  I don't even think about the fact that it was once cracked and chipped what appeared beyond repair or continued use. 

Rick

Thank you for the kind welcome and helpful replies gentlemen.

The threads which retain both of the wheels on the shaft are definitely Right Hand, 12mm X 1.75mm pitch, a standard ISO 12mm nut screws on easily, I have just run a good 12mm X 1.75mm die on the threads at the stone wheel end AND the honing wheel end, which suggests to me that this is a home made (or improvised) shaft. The shaft is exactly 16mm diameter steel. ...snip...

I believe the right hand threads you see are what was standard, back in the day. Thus, the shaft may or may not have been "home made".  That the shaft is 16mm dia. is curious and could be an indicator of non-standard. What part of the shaft is 16mm?

The "new" shaft version has the left hand threads and EZ-Loc nut, which a major reason for getting it instead of fabricating a new one with right hand threads.

...snip...

I will drill out the shaft from the stone wheel later and see what the situation is with the remaining hole in the stone wheel, I am not expecting a good outcome, the crush effect of expanding rust has probably damaged the stone so I expect to have to sleeve the hole then bore the sleeve accurately to retain concentricity.
...snip...

Good luck boring out the shaft and if you have to sleeve the hole, good luck boring out the stone to make space for that sleeve.  With the "price" of the machine to you, you may be better served just buying a new "modern" standard grinding wheel (SG-250). 

Welcome to the forum.  Nice acquisition.
 
The replacement shaft is stainless steel, so I believe it would behoove you to get it from Tormek, as it comes with the new, easy lock nut as well and won't corrode, even if your grinding wheel has rust embedded in it.  I love turning and milling stainless (at least some alloys of it), but I is not worth the work in this case, I feel. 

There have been several folks who have restored older Tormeks and there is extensive discussion around those threads that could be of great interest to you. And just spend some time, if you haven't already, just reading the long history of discussions, regarding all aspects of the Tormek.  Lots to learn. 

I highly recommend getting a Truing Tool.  Much easier and likely more accurate than truing on your lathe.  I have two lathes and I would not want the grinding grit getting on the ways or other moving surfaces. 

Rick

I decided not to glue in the new sleeve. I used POM and made the sleeve press-fit:

Have you trued the grindstone? Have you tried sharpening something to see if the sleeve doesn't slip?

If you do need to glue it you would of course need a water proof glue. And you would have to make sure the grindstone is good and dry. I'm thinking maybe gorilla glue?

Hopefully, the sleeve is short enough (or can be shortened if not) so as to not interfere with the thick washers on both sides of the grindstone, which should grip the wheel and not the sleeve.  Not much sticks to delrin (Polyoxymethylene), so if one were to try to glue it in place, it would need to be deeply grooved in an angular or lengthwise a way such that the dried glue would act as keys, locking the sleeve in place.  The circular grooves in the photo the OP showed may not be adequate. 

Rick

Hello Rick,

POM (Polyoxymethylene) is a plastic that, ...snip...
Andi

Ah... Good old Delrin... or known by some as acetal. 
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Love working with this stuff.  Have loads of it.  Turns and cuts really nice, holds its shape and slippery.  First learned of this stuff in the 1960s, working in my father's machine shop. Just never heard its chemical name.

Rick

Good fix.  What is "POM", please?  It is an unfamiliar term for me.  I'm surprised you were able to find something that fit so nicely in the hole in the stone and that has a 12mm center hole.

Rick

I doubt very much you could true the side of the grindstone with the grading stone. Perhaps a diamond plate?

Another option might be to use spray-on contact cement to glue a full sheet of sandpaper to a flat table top, remove the grindstone, and rub it on the sandpaper. A flat surface can be created with a scrap of 3/4-inch MDF. Cut it a bit larger than the sheet of sand paper and fasten it to your benchtop with a few drywall screws, countersunk, of course.

This is probably a reasonable path for flattening the side of the SG wheel.  If not careful, sanding one portion more than another could cause it to not be perpendicular to the arbor hole/outer surface (which is trued by the Truing Tool).  Such non-perpendicularity would cause the side of the wheel to have a wobble, which might not work well for some sharpening operations.

Plus I realized afterwards that a serration is not a half-circle, but rather a portion of it, so the diameter can be wider than the pitch.
...snip...

A radius gauge set, like below, is the right tool to measure the serrations. Match the curvature of the gauge to any portion of a internal or external radius and read the measurement from the stamped markings. 

...snip...
I know that's asking a lot, no worries if you can't. Thank you again for the time you've already devoted to this.

Nick.

Didn't think I'd be back at it with these knives for quite a long time, but it turns out I missed a paring knife and failed to grab a hooked/beak shaped paring knife from the box, so two more today.  Per the request, I meant to get both after grinding and before the SJ.  Only wrote down one, 567, but I'm pretty sure the other one was pretty similar.  Kind of a surprise they are so high. 

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