Messages

Found it!  Had the time frame a bit wrong, but I worked back from 2017.

Knife Point Setting Template, by Jan
Started by Jan, October 27, 2015, 10:49:00 AM

[clamp parallel to the flat, with the side of the jig shaft (the pivot point), roughly at the point where the belly of the knife is]

With time, I realized I tend to clamp parallel to the flat, with the side of the jig shaft (the pivot point), roughly at the point where the belly of the knife is. So I'd say a mix of both pictures...

I find this allows for both minimal effort when grinding the flat of the blade, and best control along the curved part and in the tip area.

There was a discussion of this back in mid-2017 where a template was presented that helped in setting this position.  Images I saved back then are below.  I can't remember what if was called, so haven't found the discussion.    It may have have had to do with lifting vs pivoting.  Anyone recall it and maybe point us to the thread?

I use this template to this day for setting up knives. 

Rick

I've noticed the reading from the BESS measurement device vary according to the rate at which I move when cutting the wire. Quickly cut against the wire and the results show a much sharper knife. I was wondering if anyone made a device with which the knife could be mounted, such as the magnetic one from Schlelfjunkies, however, have it connected to a manual or motorized device which lowers at a constant uniform speed.
Mostly I just sharpen to get a knife usable in the kitchen and or boat. There are times though when I like to "Putz" around and see if a new technique produces better results. If someone or company does make such a device I would be more than thankful for that information.
Thank you for your time.

I have one of EOU's BESS testers, and was heavily involved with it use for a while.  But I got to where I learned what I needed to know about my sharpening process and now just about never use it any longer and, like you, just sharpen to make knives nicely sharp and usable. 

Also like you, I never noticed the device for controlling the testing process.  It looks to be decent enough, but it does look like it may still be prone to user variability and would benefit from being motorized or standardized in some manner.  Some years ago, I motorized the Tormek Truing Tool and now use it when truing any matrix grinding wheel (SG, SB, SJ and traditional grinding wheels fitted to the T8). There is a link in that thread showing it use, but here it is directly.  I have more of those motors and more of the threaded rod stock.  It could be interesting to make a motorized BESS testing fixture.  I have a spare dial comparator granite stand that could serve as the platform/column. 

Rick

That part number doesn't come up on an internet search and not on the Tormek web site.  check that you have the letters and numbers correct.  Perhaps you can post a photo of it. 

Plastic pipe makes and excellent spacer and I think there is no need to make the inside diameter match closely to the shaft diameter, it just need to be enough larger to fit on easily.  Using the two washers/spacers clamps an oversized ID quite adequately for the need, of spacing and keeping the shaft in place for operating without a grinding wheel and/or storage/transportation.

I made a close fitting aluminum spacer, 1" OD and reamed 12mm ID.  it is TOO snug sometimes, with the fine residue that often covers the shaft.  Haven't had it freeze the spacer yet, but it can be more tight than needed at times. 

1/2" ID may be preferable.  1/2" = 0.5000", 12mm = 0.472"  Diff. = 0.028"

Thank you, Ken, for laying it out like that. 

I agree and have advocated the similarly  elsewhere in regard to struggles new users have dealt with (albeit in much less detail).  The handbook has been around a long time, although I don't know how much it has been updated much with newer Tormek advances.  The online classes have contributed very much to the information new users hunger for and need.  They are a crucial resource for new users and I suspect good for more experienced users to revisit. 

[McMaster-Carr carries them all:]

McMaster-Carr carries them all:

Stainless Steel, Nylon Tipped Set Screws

Metric Stainless Steel, Flat Tipped Set Screws

Metric Plastic, Flat Tipped Set Screws

Brass Set Screws

Curious why the videos linked above have all turned out to be "No Longer Available".  Just me/my computer?  (We'll see if that happens to the links below.) 

No matter, I have found the YT website for this fellow and have bookmarked it.  "iSharpen" is his user name here and his YT name, for "Findon Knife Sharpening".  Haven't watched any yet, but it should be interesting, given the discuss that precedes. 

Link to the "Home" web site here, but I prefer going directly to the Videos page as my starting point. 

I have one of Vadim's kangaroo tail strops, so I wonder how/why/when they became unavailable for export. 

Can you measure the difference, say with a caliper or indicator?  Is it consistent? 

Does it happen with just the vertical USB or also with the horizontal and/or the horzizontal/MB-102 when used as an Frontal Vertical Base?  If so, is the movement in the same direction, that is, is the effect on the projection distance the same? 

I wonder if this movement when tightening the screws is caused by a ridge or burr (unevenness/not flat) on the end of the screws. 

I suspect these screws are produces with what is called "rolling" the threads.  That is, the die that forms the threads uses pressure to create the threads by rolling over the screw shaft.  (In the past, thread were "cut" by using threading dies.)  This rolling process pushes material off the end of the screw, leaving a bit of a divot or crater in the middle.  It is typically uneven, being higher on one side or another. 

This burr will often leave marks and/or burrs on the surface against which the screw tightens.  It is easy to remove and make the end of the screw flat and uniform by filing or grinding.  I do this sometimes when I want the end of the screw to be flat and not marr the tightened surface.  This is common when set screws are tightened on shafts, making it difficult to remove the shafts.  Set screws are actually produced with this "cupped" end as a means to make the grip better.  Set screws are also available with flat ends so that they no not marr the surfaces. 

I think it is worth asking Tormek about the warranty, but I wonder why it would be a concern such that it would void the warranty?  How does putting a second grinding wheel on the left side of a T8 harm or degrade the machine? 

The only thing I can think of is that the run time might increase if grinding on that second wheel makes the machine run longer than if you were only honing on that side.  I'm making an assumption that no physical changes/modifications are made to the machine itself.  That the manner of attaching a grinding wheel on that side is done in such away that does not irreversibly alter the machine. 

I agree with others that Tormek probably won't "endorse" it, but there is more to making and "endorsement" and saying it doesn't void the warranty.  I would not expect Tormek to endorse it as it is quite counter to there philosophy of the sharpening process, but I don't see why it should matter if they don't and it doesn't affect the warranty. 

Rick

Never from grabbing, but from inattention and/or stupidity...

Tormek Bloopers anyone??? July 19, 2018, 05:09:17 PM

Rick

[modified by the same machinist]

I believe that jigs, especially knife jigs, should be as simple as possible. Having an adjustable SVM-45 just seems too complicated to me.

Mike's design was brilliant and I'm really sorry it never made it into production.  I do agree, in one respect, that it was too complicated, but only in regard as reflected in the cost of production.

Using Wootz' recommendations as a guide, the majority of my kitchen knives fall within the acceptable thickness range of the unaltered SVM-45. A couple of my thicker chef knives are slightly thicker than that range, as is my Mora Garberg. However; these all fall within the range of my SVM-45 with the Wootz recommended .5mm milled area. For the odd knife, which I do not presently own or plan to own, I also have an SVM-45 milled to 1.0 mm and a KJ-45.

It seems to me that my unmodified SVM-45 will cover most of my needs, with an assist from the .5mm milled SVM-45 and KJ -45 when needed. Am I missing something?

Ken

PS I also have a set of feeler gages modified by the same machinist if I should feel the need for tighter precision.

That would be me.  I also think Wootz's design for modifying the SVM jigs and use of shims was brilliant.  I did this to a couple of my own SVMs and did the ones for Ken and modified the set of feeler gauges for him. I have never tried using the modified jigs without the shims, but feel they are simple enough to use that it is a shame to not.  A standard feeler gauge set is modified by shortening to be only slightly widher than the SVM-45 jig.  Standard width feeler gauges work fine on the SVM-140 jig (have not modfied the -140). The table of shims per is shown below.

Back when Wootz's modifications were first introduced, some were interested in having me do the modifications.  I wasn't able to do them at that time, but have considered it feasible more recently...  ...at least until I sold my house last week and am in a crash program of moving my household and workshop.  Once things settle down and get my shop back in operation, I could considered it again. 

Rick

You cannot view this attachment.

...snip...
So I wonder if you could give a detailed overview of your technique Rick, when using the felt wheel with 1 micron diamonds?

Happy to try.  Pretty simple and I've posted on it a few times before, peripherally to other discussions. 

Nominally, whatever grinding wheels, SG, SB or CBN/Diamonds, both followed by the SJ at the same grinding angle.  There have been times when I did not follow with the SJ, but not often  Then setting the angle 1°-2° higher for deburring on the rock hard felt. I apply fresh past before starting a sharpening session, but keep is sparse and spread out as much as possible.  Sharpening sessions for me usually amount to 4-5, up to a dozen knives. 

I use the SVM jigs with two milled down, 0.5mm and 1mm, as Vadim did, with shims for centering.  Most of my SVM are not milled but I use the shims to improve centering for the knives thin enough for it to work.  I have a KJ jig but truly hate the loss of adjustable projection, so I just don't use it. 

As mentioned, I use diamond paste rather than spray, simply because this was worked out with Vadim about the time he first came out with the deburring book and before he went from pastes to spays.  I bought a full range of pastes at that time, but setttled very quickly on just using the 1µ, probably in large part because I have only one felt wheel and the SJ is functionally the same as using 5µ diamonds.  I do not have a set routine of working only one side and then the other or number of passes per side, more by intuition perhaps. 

Final treatment is stropping on dry, hanging leather (the kangaroo tail Vadim sold).

Back at that time, I bought several paper wheels and was going to try going the multiple-grits/paper wheels like Vadim used, but found the above routine worked to my satisfaction.  I have been able to achieve sub-100 BESS readings, but never gotten that close to the 50 range.

I still use a phone app for determining USB setting and always use an FVB or MB-102 for deburring.  I use the distance from the USB to the grinding wheel approach (rather than USB distance to the machine case) - much faster, easier and in my opinion more accurate.  I DO grind on the SJ edge-leading and have never had a problem with catching or grabbing. 

Rick 

... and not and not nearly as...

... and repeating yourself... 

Not really... a felt wheel removes the burr and cleans up the edge (and can polish), while an SJ wheel will refine the edge and polish the bevel, but still leaves a burr that needs to be removed.

I'm going to be a bit more emphatic.  Definitely not, for the reasons cbwx34 says.  Following Knife Grinders deburring principles, whether I use the SJ wheel or not, I always finish using a rock hard felt wheel with 1µ diamonds (I use paste rather than spray) at some "degree" of higher angle, usually 1°-2°. 

But, now that I mention the higher angle for deburring, I'm not recalling at the moment if anyone has tried to deburr using only the SJ at one of those "higher" angles (someone must have).  I suspect it would not work to the same degree due the significant difference in abrasiveness, SJ ~ 4,000-5,000 grit, 1µ ~ 14,000 grit.