Messages

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Noted Rich: TTS-100 on order. Cost of my board? Nil. Cost of a 3D printer? No contest.
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One does not have to buy and learn to operate a 3D printer to have 3D printed stuff.  There are companies that offer 3D printing services, such as Shapeways.  I used them for printing a small tool/accessory for holding bamboo on a milling machine for making bamboo fly rods.  I had a quantity made, but the price was the same per unit for 1 or 10. 

My original machined holddown.
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3D printed holddown.
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Wandering a bit off topic: I went with 3D printed (in steel) because the machining, as I had done with my original ones, was too complex and the CNC shop that I've used for other tools declined to give me a bid/price, saying it would be prohibitively expensive.  This was a couple years ago.  I have redesigned this tool and am in the process of making jigs to simplify the production process and think I'll be able to machine them myself.  The two on the right are the two pictured above. Those grouped on the left are in process - not completed/finished - still working on the jigs but the process will be greatly simplified and much faster.  And, I actually use my T8 for finish grinding on the the end facets (Posted on this back when working on this earlier, where I used the DBS-22 on a belt grinder.  Not doing that now, rather the side of diamond wheels for the flat grind, using the jig on the left). 

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Rick

Rick,
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Did you have success using the (eight inch diameter) 46 or 80 grit Norton 3X wheels (wet) or the (ten inch diameter) 46 grit wheel (also used wet) with the DBS-22? Granted, they are not as fast as a high speed dry grinder; however they do not produce loose grinding dust to ruin your jig.

Ken

Yes, I did have success with those grinding wheels, and I have you to thank for it.  You may recall, that I later shifted to the same sort of "traditional" grinding wheel, but at 10" diameter. I frequently mention these, both here but more often on the FB group about these wheels as very cheap but very effective options for those seeking faster metal removal for all manner of work on the Tormeks, so much so that some may regard me as a broken record. 

Rick

Rick,
You should sent your question to support (support@tormek.se).

One question I have is about the choice of grinding wheels. This seems like a good use for CBN wheels. Diamond and CBN wheels run cooler than conventional wheels. I mention CBN because they are available in 80 grit. As a general rule, coarser wheels run cooler than conventional wheels.

On the plus side for diamond wheels, they are built on steel frames. There are some CBN wheels with steel frames.

Ken

Tormek replied, but I cannot find it right now. Their reason for not using the DBS-22 on a bench grinder was a risk of "catching" on the wheel. Through using it on my Rikon low speed grinder with an 8" CBN wheel, I've not had any issues with catching, so, to me, that is not an issue. 

I have, however, discontinued use of the DBS on a bench grinder and will not use it on my Viel belt grinder either.  The problem is the grinding grit that gets into the sliding surfaces of the DBS.  There are two, one between the fixed platform and sliding plate, the other between the drill bit clamp and the sliding plate.  Zinc does not hold up well to it and while I did not see damage to the plastic runners, I'm sure it would happen with time. 

Haven't yet, but I think making a drill specific platform, I believe like Jan's, is the way to go for roughing drill bits on the 80 grit CBN on the bench grinder. 

Rick

I bought my T8 from Sharpening Supplies and was quite happy.  I believe I bought a few items from them afterward, but Advanced Machinery is where I've gone for accessories and parts recently. 

Tormeks are often stocked at retail woodworkers supply houses, such as Rockler and Woodcrafters.  The long knife jig might not be something that is stocked as frequently, but its work a look. 

Rick

Along with the fascination of precise instruments, we should sharpen in temperature controlled rooms and wear gloves to eliminate transferring body heat to our tools. 

Ken

(Just kidding. . .)

For a while, there was one here who it appeared to be close to it...

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but I don't see the 'ease of use' for this distance preprogrammed into TormekCalc, am I missing this somewhere or are you using different software?
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"T-USB" is the measurement directly to the wheel in TormekCalc (in the column under the wheel size)...
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TormekCalc is an amazingly detailed and excellent app, but I find it way more than I need and unless one spends the time to really figure out what is going on, way more difficult to use than I care to go through. 

There are other calculators where it is easier to find, although I could not in CB's Calcapp.  I use his older and possibly no longer available "Go Calc" app that shows USB to Wheel right on the main screen. 

Maybe CB can post an image of where to find it in an angle calculator that is much easier to use, such as Calcapp. 

Rick

I think you would be very well served to just take your time with the grinding wheels you have, gain some experience and practice, before leaping into more wheels and/or methods and accessories. 

I would even just stick with the standard honing wheel procedures until you get thoroughly comfortable with it all.  I believe that only then will you have a solid basis for what you may want to add to the mix.  It is vital to gain proficiency with the basis.  It is all to easy to get distracted with all the other stuff with the result that the fundamentals are overlooked.  None of that stuff is required to get excellently sharp edges. 

I think getting the MB-102 is a good one, in order to gain the FVB functionallity.  It will greatly enhance your honing experience and learning.  It would also be extremely helpful for using the Sun Tiger wheel in an edge-trailing mode, which is probably the better what to learn its use.  If you use it like the grinding wheel(s), there is the chance you will catch the edge and gouge the wheel and toss the knife. 

For angle setting, consider just using the distance from the USB to the wheel, rather than measuring the distance from the USB to the machine case.  Using the wheel to USB distance greatly simplifies angle setting. I got swept up into using the USB height and KG's angle setting software, for several years, hearing from some about the simplicity of just using the wheel to USB distance.  Once I seriously tried it, I've never done anything else. The main advance is the simplicity, but hidden in there is that it avoids all the intermediate parameters, which all contribute some level of errors and imprecision.  And while mentioning precision, experience has shown many of us that tight angle precision setting is not necessary, even though it "feels" right or better. 

As far as a tool for the angle setting process, I would recommend a mechanical dial caliper, rather than vernier.  I started with vernier tools in the 1960s, first with a slide rule and then with vernier calipers in my father's machine shop.  They are perfectly functional, but require attention to proper use, which is not nearly as critical as dial calipers. 

Photos below show two methods for tools used in setting the angle, stone to USB distance.  I use and angle setting app to determine what the distance should be.  Set my calipers for that distance and then use the calipers to set the distance setting tool.  Shown below are two, a woodworker's marking gauge (my standard) or a common adjustable square.  Part of the reason for this is that the width of most calipers barely reach the centerline of the USB, whereas the other tools easily do.  Also notice the rubber band stretched between the wheel axle and the USB, used as a reference for aligning the setting tool. 

Most of all, have fun and spend a lot of time practicing.

Rick

Sitting is pretty much the only way I use my T8. I do it this way because I have mild neuropathy in my legs and it is painful for me to stand for long periods. 

I use the vertical USB, which is on the back of the case, just wrap my hands around and over.  I sit in a standard, armless, wheeled, swivel chair (what we used to call a secretary's chair - had it since 1985). Currently, the T8 is on a standard height folding table.  This puts the T8 is a bit higher than I would like, but it works.  What I like better is to have the T8 on a sturdy stool, but that stool is occupied holding up my spindle sander. I've had the stool since my first job out of college, in 1972, came from a nuclear power plant job site in Verplank, NY. 

Working with the T8 on the stool allows less raising of my arms, which is more comfortable, particularly for longer sessions.  But working at the standard table height, I routinely sharpen 6-12 knives at a time and do not think about it at all.  The only real downside of the stool is the lack of adjacent workspace, at the same height.  I just use it next to a bench or table for all the accessories.  A minor downside is having to move the T8 to the stool from the table where it sits most of the time.  Or in the case of having stowed it on shelves, getting it out and lifting it onto the stool, but that would happen whether it was going to be used on the table or stool.  I believe the stool height is 18". 

The one think I can think of that I do standing are dills.  The DBS-22 jig is set up an angle such that it just works better standing.  This is definitely one that would work better on the stool, but as I said, it is occupied. 

Rick

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Update: Just recalled that when I was evaluating the Vevor drill sharpening machine, I used the T8/DBS-22 at the same time, but put it on a common plastic milk crate, the kind I've posted often for storing and transporting the T8 and grinding wheels.  Just turned it upside down and put the cafeteria tray on it to catch the drips.  Height of the inverted milk crate is on the order of 12" but I didn't even notice the working height, other than recalling being perfectly comfortable with it.  Shown is the T8 in a milk crate. 

I also recalled that I made a child sized workbench for my granddaughter, including a woodworking vise.  She never really used it, except as a cafe table.  It is as high or slightly higher than the wooden stool shown above.  I think it would work fine and would actually provide a little bit of adjacent workspace for accessories, etc. 

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Drill bits remind me of the old John Wayne movie title, "They Were Expendable". As a career telephone man, I worked with drill bits all the time, and, like most of us, frequently abused them. I suspect that abuse is why they seem to need more frequent sharpening and wear down quickly.

Ken

No doubt abuse will cause any tool to wear out or fail prematurely.  I think Rich's point was that in normal, non-abusive use (which I'm sure he always practices) a drill bit hardened at the tip will wear and not dull longer than a drill that has been shortened past the area that was hardened. 

I think it remains unclear whether the drill bits he is using and having this happen were hardened only near the point and thus are prone to dulling more quickly when shortened.  I don't know how one would determine that.

Rick

To beat a dead horse...

Not all drills are HSS (or better, such as cobalt HSS), some ARE made from carbon steel and hardened.
 
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I may be wrong, but it seems to me that bits which are much shorter (e.g., ¼" shorter) are not as hard as they were before grinding off that material. At least they need to be resharpened more often.

Well, I'll be...  I think you're on to something... 

Machinery's Handbook...
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I am surprised that a manufacturer, at least of high quality drills, would only heat treat the tips.  It does not surprise me that "import" drills may only be tip hardened.  While searching in Machinery's Handbook, I found a bit about testing a material for "hardenability", where they heat just the end of a standardized test piece and test it incrementally along its length for hardness levels. 

I have to admit, that I haven't had to remove much from the points of drills to have experienced this.  On those that I have shortened, I guess I haven't used them enough to find out they dull more easily.  OR...  All my drills are USA made, Precision Twist Drill brand, so maybe they are full length hardened.  Now that I am aware of this hardening aspect, I'll pay more attention. 

I've often wondered how they put the "twist" in twist drills.  Must be a forging type thing where they heat them to a formable condition, do the twisting, let them cool and then do the grinding functions. 

Rick

...snip...  I knew that I sometimes ground down past the area of hardening, but did not know about damaging the DBS jig.

Rich, I'm not clear on what you mean about going past the hardening.  Drill bits I have are HSS and my assumption was they were not hardened, just equally hard throughout.  I have wondered, however, what is up with "drill blanks", which as far as I can tell are some form of high quality steel but not HSS. 

I was bummed to discover the damage as using the bench grinder was very effective. 

Rick

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Only for that one knife, and yes it worked, but I'm sure there's better ideas.  Like I said, I just did it to inspire some.
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Made me think of this tool, a universal socket driver...

Haven't done it, but supposedly will work on non-hex shapes, such as penta heads on the city water service covers.

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Rick, I hoped this addressed your questions and concerns. If not let me know.

Sounds like you're on it and have a plan.

Probably better than chopsticks...
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Ha, I like it. Have you actually used it this way?  Did it work?  I think, when the need comes up (these things are usually ("when, not if"), I'll give that a try.