Messages

Yes, and if you do not have a Truing Tool, you should get one - of the new models. 

Rick,
I noticed your using a laser to mark the proper angle that you've set or determined for the knife. Where did you get the holder and laser to mount on the USB? I very much like your approach.

I believe use of a laser line module was started by Wootz, of Knife Grinders.  I did a search here on the search string "laser line module" and found an early, but not the first reference to it.  There was the exact same question asked in this thread.  The laser line module itself I bought off Amazon.  Lots of options out there, key being the projected "line".  I made the holder and after seeing it in one of the forum posts, Wootz commissioned me to make a multi-laser holder for him, but I think he just used it, never made any for sale.

I think a more broad search on just "laser", "laser line" or "laser module" would turn up more discussion on this.  There was a lot back in the day. 

I have to say that the laser helped initially.  The concept is to help maintian the "line of contact" (LOC) of the bevel with the grindstones.  However, it quit working and I have not bothered to replace it, having learned to hold the position by eye.  Searching on "line of contact" also brings up a lot of discussions. 

Rick

I just can't picture sitting in front of it... How tall is your stand and chair?  Do you grind edge leading?

I'm using a regular chair meant for a dining table, but my work table is set quite low. So that puts the contact point between the blade & grindstone at about eye level.

My T-8 is also positioned quite close to the edge of my work table, and I sit with the grindstone in line with the centre of my body.

I sharpen edge leading while seated, but I stand up while honing and sharpening edge trailing.

I've been sitting in front of my T8 almost since getting it eight years ago.  I have neuropathy in my legs and cannot stand very long before it becoming too painful.  I sit in a castered, swivel chair and my T8 is on a standard height folding table (30"). I sharpen knives almost exclusively edge-leading, so my hands wrap around and hold the jig on the vertical USB. 

For a while, I tried using a short stool (18") as the workstand for the T8l, sitting on the same swivel chair.  It worked well enough and may have been a bit more comfortable as my hands didn't have to bend as much.  However, there wasn't convenient enough workspace adjacent on both sides for efficient workflow. 

I do stand when working edge trailing, most particularly when using the drill bit jig (DBS-22) and the angle of view isn't suitable, nor is it comfortable or effective.  However, when using the SJ wheel for polishing knives, which many say should only be used edge-trailing, I do use the SJ edge leading in the same sitting position as other grinding and honing wheels.  I've never really had any problems with the SJ wheel catching, which is the reason some say it should be used edge-trailing

Rick

Hi Ken,

Thanks for your help. The Norton wheel is 'just' a normal workbench grinder wheel? And you keep it flat with a truing-tool?

I don't know what the material of the core in a Norton grinding wheel is, but I prefer to leave it as it is and design a spacer..

Cheers!

Thank Ken for clarifying that the SB wheel is not available for the T4 and for providing more detail about using a Norton 3X grinding wheel.  I don't know if all traditional grinding wheels are water resistant/proof, but the Norton 3X and the no-name ones I used in water on my T8 had to be as they never degraded or fell apart after years of use. 

I think you're on to a good solution for the bushing.  You will also need some wide flange washers to make up the difference in wheel width, as the Norton 3X are 1" wide.  I machined my bushing from stainless steel and flange washers from aluminum.  Most grinding wheels in the US come with a 1" bore, which needs to be filled with bushings.  Many come with several nested sleeves for mating with different diameters of grinder shafts, just not 12mm. 

Rick

Have you read much of the historical posts in this forum?  There has been quite a bit of discussion on this.  First off, the SG stone is not great for sharpening drill bits, which is part of the reason for the SB stone.  Drill bits are typically High Speed Steel, which the SB stone is designed to do a better job of grinding.  But, my experience has been that even the SB stone is not adequate.  I went through a wide range of possible solutions for more aggressive metal removal for some of the reasons you have. 

1) traditional high speed bench grinder,
2) traditional high speed grinding wheel fitted for the Tormek shaft,
3) belt grinder (I outfitted it to work with Tormek jigs, but not necessary),
4) slow speed bench grinder with white matrix grinding wheels,
5) Tormek diamond wheels (all three),
6) 180 grit CBN wheel on a Tormek (10" wheel for my T87),
7) 80 grit CBN wheel on the slow speed bench grinder. 

#1 works quite well except one had to be careful about heat management

#2 works very well and preserves the dust free, water grinding system of the Tormek.  A bushing with a 12mm bore must be bought or made to mate the traditional grinding wheel with the Tormek shaft.  This is a bit slower than the higher speed alternatives, but is one of the easiest and least expensive alternatives. 

#3 works well and belt grinders are very useful around a shop for a variety of task. 

#4 works well and the white matrix wheels are better for heat management.  I outfitted mine with the Tormek BGM-100 for use with Tormek jigs, but found that the dry grinding grit gets in the sliding surfaces of the drill jig and I no longer use it this way.

#5 is better than the SB but even with the DC (coarse) wheel, I found it still too slow,

#6 is much faster and I use this in nearly all sharpening tasks

#7 still has the problem of throwing dry grinding grit into the DBS-22 sliding surfaces and I no longer us this method for drills in that jig.  I do use it for most non-Tormek grinding tasks. 

Good luck.  Do some reading on the forum. 

Rick

Both ways will work.
If you are batch sharpening, for customers say, then the calcapp is great for setting your usb to a set angle for a set blade projection. Then you need a batch of old style , adjustable svm jigs to enable you set the correct projection for each knife. Just one set up for as many knives/svm jigs you have.
The new angle setting jig and kj jig really comes into its own for say just one knife here and there or a batch of differing knives, grinding angles, blade thicknesses etc.
For example, I just sharpened a dozen kitchen knives all at 15 degrees/side using the first set up. Saved a load of time!
The same customer gave 2 non typical knives to sharpen with extra thick blade stock , wide blades and requiring 20 degrees/ side. The angle setter and self centering kj45 made set up quick and easy.

Congratulations.  You just summed up the whole discussion in a very short, clear, concise manner.  Thank you.  Oh, and by the way, I couldn't agree more...

Rick

I don't know anything about the Dictum wheels, but if it is 80 grit, might be just the thing you need. 

Couple options, one cheap, the other spendy. 

1) traditional grinding wheel, such as 64 grit Norton 3X, mounted on the Tormek.  Takes some custom fitting to mate the 1" arbor hole to the 12mm Tormek shaft.  Can be a simple as drilling out some PVC pipe to go with the plastic bushings that come with the wheel and some 12mm fender washers to fill the space.  Or, if you have the ability to machine your own, make the bushing and flange washers (or have them made at a machine shop).  Do a search on the forum for "Norton" and you'll turn up a number or threads on this.  I machined my own bushing and flange washers.  AFAIK, Norton only come in 8" dia., which work, but I came into a 10" dia., no-name wheel that works much like the 250mm wheels. 

2) Coarse CBN wheels, run in water on the T8.  Third party vendors supply them, some can be run in water, at least one states the warranty will be voided if run in water.  I've been running a 180 grit CBN, from the "no water" vendor for years without any problems.  I use the Tormek ACC solution and am careful to dry the wheel after use. 

Another option is to get a variable speed belt grinder and run it as slow as it will go for roughing and then take them to the Tormek. 

Way back, before doing all of the above, I tried the SB grinding wheel.  Does work better but tends to glaze up quickly. 

It also may help to get some coarse diamond plates to remove the glazing, short of retruing the wheels, for both the standard and SB wheels.  Search "diamond plate" and you should find discussion of this. Knife Grinders may have been the originator of the diamond plate technique. 

John said it well.  Your truing tool diamond cutting tip looks just fine.  I questioned this a long time ago and got similar feedback. 

Take it seriously, to go slow when truing - MUCH slower than you will think it should go.  It is extremely tedious, but worth it.  Also, do not take too deep of cuts.  You mention several characteristics of your stone(s), one being "rounded in the edges".  That can be a good thing.  Radiused edges can reduce a gouging tendancy if blades are tipped over sharp edges.  Many of us purposefully add the radiused corners.  The radius also helps reduce the risk of chipping out the corners when truing, particularly if the cutting head enters or exits the corners too quickly and/or deeply.

The jig you have is of the older, non-self-centering type, but it has been in service for a long time with good results.  I like them over the new, self-centering design, primarily because the new design eliminated adjustability of the projection (distance from the tool edge to the support bar). 

The one new accessory that you may want to get is the new angle setting tool, the KJ-123.  It is a vast improvement over the previous angle setting to, AngleMaster, and well worth the modest cost.  It will make angle setting for knife grinding and honing much easier and faster.   

...snip...

Although Tormek makes no 200mm SB blackstone, the Norton 3X grinding wheels are easily adaptable; however, they are not quite "plug and play". They are 25mm wide and the bore is 1". Neither of these is a big problem. A few fender washers can fill out the 25mm. Get 12mm inside diameter fender washers. I used a piece of 5/8" outside diameter plastic pipe drilled out from 9/16" to 12mm to fit the bore. Forthose who are not comfortable doing the modification themselves, it is an easy job for a local machinist or 3D printer.

The 3X wheels are available in 46 and 80 grit. You won't need both; the 80 grit wheel is probably the best choice. The largest diameter is 8", ideal for the T4 and usable with a T8. I use them wet.

Ken

I can vouch for the feasibility and utility of mounting traditional grinding wheels on Tormeks.  I've posted here many times on this.  I machined custom fender washers and bushing to mount 8" dia. Norton 3X wheels and later a 10" dia. no-name wheel, all 1" wide.  These wheels are trued just like Tormek wheels using the Truing Tool.  They are very effective, especially for anyone who doesn't have the space, resources or interest for other options, such as belt grinders, etc. 

Photo below is of a Norton 3X on my T8.

Here is a video showing truing of the 10" wheel.

this is interesting now as I was once told by a dealer that sells Tormek in Canada that the Japanese wheel and the original wheel can be run in normal tapwater. So am I understanding correctly they should be running in ACC solution as well?

I think it is more on the order that it is "OK" to run those wheels (SG, SJ) in the ACC, but it is in no way necessary or better.  I repeat what I said above, though, which is why the heck would you do that, given how much slurry the SJ gives off, it contaminates the trough solution, whether plain tap water or ACC solution.  I've not found it works to filter that SJ slurry out, so in my opinion, the SJ run in ACC solution would ruin that solution for use with anything afterward.  That would mean discarding the ACC solution and as much whining there often is about how expensive it is, why waste it in that wa?.  I for one, do not find it that much of a burden to pour the ACC out of the trough and replace it with tap water when going from grinding wheels (SG, SB, DXs or CBN) to the SJ wheel. 

Hello,

First of all, I would like to thank you very much for both answers.

Unfortunately, they confirm my fears that sharpening a blade of this shape can be a difficult challenge.
I also wonder if using a grinding wheel that is significantly thinner than the standard Tormek wheel (50mm) would make this easier?
Do such wheels (e.g. 3-5 mm thick) exist and can they be mounted on the T-8?

Piotr

Indeed they can, with a some accommodations.  Ken S. has said many times before that a stand 1" grinding wheel can be mounted on a Tormek, run in water and used just like a regular Tormek grinding wheel, including truing with the Truing Tool.  It requires buying or making a bushing to mate the 1" grinding wheel's arbor hole (often 1") with the 12mm Tormek shaft.  Many new standard grinding wheels come with a set of plastic bushings in about 1/8" diameter increments.  As I recall, Ken drilled a piece of PVC pipe with a 12mm drill to bore out the ID to fit the shaft.  He also used multiple 12mm ID fender washers to build up the width to serve as flange washers. He recommended Norton 3X, 64 grit wheels.  80 grit can also be used. 

I have done this with two different sets of wheels for my T8, two 8" Norton 3X wheels, 64 and 80 grit and and a 10" no-name wheel.  I machined stainless steel bushing and custom aluminum flange washers, but Ken's method works fine.  The most important aspect is matching the shaft diameter with the bushings.

Here is a video of truing one of these.

The point of the above adaptations was to provide a more aggressive metal removal option to the range of Tormek wheel grits and are very effective.  They may work for what you are asking about but I think the corners would need to be rounded quite a lot to be more effective.  How often would you need to do this? 

Rick

I have recently moved, downsizing my shop space from a 2-car garage to 1-car, but also taking over one of two bedrooms as a workroom.  I've been so burned out from the move that it has taken me a while to get started again with my hobbies/projects. But tonight, I broke the barrier of getting back in to things. 

But, my daughter had presented me with an interesting tool, a folding hatchet that needed sharpening.  I suppose I could have used the axe jig (old one) but, maybe due to its odd shape (narrowness), I didn't even think of it. 

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I did try to figure out if one of the knife jigs would work, but...  nope. So, I decide to do it psuedo-free hand, but braced on the USB to maintain position and angle, cradling the back of the hatchet head even with the USB with the palm of my hand and fingers. 

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After establishing the bevel angle using the black marker method, I did check to see what the angle was, using the new angle setting too.  I had not ever used it yet.  Think I like it.  Grinding angle and honing angles. 

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Turned out pretty good.  This hatchet has two hollow ground bevels, the large visible one and the actual cutting bevel, which is what I ground/honed.  We'll have to see how well it works. 

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Hi all,
I recently got a T8 Black with the coarse diamond wheel that's included as standard (DC-250).

A few questions:
...snip...
4. Is it fine to use this wheel for grinding/shaping rather than only sharpening? Again I don't run a metal shop but sometimes (rarely) I have something that needs grinding down a bit. So for example, today, I bought some skeleton keys for the doors in my flat since the keys were missing. The new keys would go in the lock but when turning would grind to a halt. Took the locks apart, lubricated them, made sure nothing's grinding, turned the key with the lock taken apart to see if there are any obstructions. Nothing, smooth operation. Reinstalled the lock and the same problem occurred. Turns out the dimension on the lower left that's supposed to be 8.5, on my keys was 10mm. Went down and ground them down and now they're perfect. It was a casting error, looks like the cast was worn.

Yes, you can and obviously you did, but personally, I wouldn't do this.  I think a better solution would be to buy a traditional grinding wheel, preferably 10" dia. but 8" works also and fit it with a bushing and flange washers and run it in the water bath just like standard Tormek grinding wheels.  It will grind those projects faster and better than the DC diamond and there won't be any risk of wear or damage to the DC. 

VERY cost effective, under $100 for a wheel and not much for PVC pipe and washers.  Ken S. did this with just that, a drilled out piece of PVC pipe and flange washers.  I machined a stainless steel bushing and aluminum flange washers.  You can true that traditional grinding wheel just like any other true-able wheel, although you probably don't have a Truing Tool.

I did this before I had any diamond wheel (or CBN) because I wasn't happy with how slowly the SG or SB grinding wheels removed metal on edges needed a lot.  Worked great.   

Norton 3X, 64 grit, 8" dia., 1" wide mounted on a T8.
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10" dia, no-name, 1" wide, unknown grit, also mounted on T8
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Machined bushing and flange washers. 
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Video of truing the 10" grinding wheel. 

[which would be silly]

Guys!  The comment about liking the floss clips was strictly in regard to flossing my teeth - NOT - about using them for BESS testing, which would be silly.

The only serious point was that my experience with the floss clips being preferred to the spooled floss is that I actually use the clipped floss, daily like my dentist has wanted me to for decades.  In years past, when the dental hygienist offered me a new spool of floss, I'd say, "sure, but I don't know what I'd do with it..." (as a joke, I totally knew what...)

The point about clips vs spooled is that maybe I should try the BESS clips to see if I liked them better than the spooled BESS filament material for BESS testing.  I have some clips, but have literally never tried one.