Messages

Where does the procedure/process of deburring by "opening" the blades against each other - after having held them apart so they do not touch when closing them - fit in the scheme of scissors deburring.  I'm not sure where else I heard/saw this professed, other than Steve Bottorff, Sharpening Made Easy, but I'm pretty sure I have.

Also, I have heard/read/seen that dragging scissors through wood end grain does not adequately deburr them, meaning I believe there is some disagreement about this method. It really is only able to remove small burrs and can leave ragged tags of burrs.

What about using the MB-102 Multi-Base with the KJ-45?  Then, as noted by Rick, the side of the grinding wheel can be used.

We may not have enough information to properly troubleshoot this.  My sense of the situation is that the handles interfere with using any jigs, in particular the KJ jig; that the longer shafted SVM type jig might not have (or and extension added to the SVM shaft)  It also seems the handles and/or the handle mounts interfere with using available tool rests (because they are too wide, front to back.  That is why I suggested just using the USB as close to the wheel as possible.  I do not see how using the MB-102 provides the clearance needed, since a USB is still used in the MB-102 to get the USB over to the side of the wheel. 

I think some photos by the OP of what he has tried, showing why he is having difficulties are neede. 

Can you do it using just the USB, right up close to the wheel?  Would provide vertical support.  You'd have to regulate the angle "freehand" but the handles should give you a good "handle" on that. 

Here is an interesting video on the family of inexpensive Chinese microscopes. I think he unfairly compares them to a digital camera system and lens that costs several thousand dollars. I own a DSLR with Macro lens and  lighting that I can tether to my computer using Adobe software. It works great but it is not practical for a person sharpening multiple knives or trying to run a small business. If you make your money as a content creator it may be a different story.

I like to use a Bausch & Lomb loupe for edge inspection. Cutting a thermal receipt and feeling for resistance changes gives me a pretty good indication if I got the burr removed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_K8CtSgXREk

That is an interesting video.  I'd be interested in hearing why you think it was an unfair comparison.  I also own and use a DSLR/macro lens/lighting/tethering/focus stacking in post-processing tools. I agree it is not practical for someone doing "production" sharpening in real time, however, it could be quite useful for that same person examining edges/burrs during a process of figuring out effective deburring methods that would then get up into practice for the production sharpening process.  Even, so, I do not anticipate doing this, mainly because I have an adequate alternative, the Kingmas 60X hand microsope.  I also think the video reasonably and accurate demonstrates that the cheap USB cameras really do not deliver on their magnification claims. 

As mentioned in a prior post (above), way back, I explored high-end ($1000+) USB cameras that would do in-camera focus stacking, but still found them too fiddly and not worth it compared to the 60x hand microscope.  I also think the video acknowledges that the cheap USB cameras can be used, up to a point, to examine edges, but the much cheaper hand loupes are a more reasonable method. 

...snip...
Ideally, if you could get slightly longer diamond plates (maybe 5cm longer) that could stretch over one vertical and one horizontal USB, they can then be used for truing the wheel extremely accurately.
...snip...

I'd be concerned about concentrating the "wear" of the plate on the little bit of it that would be the only part in contact with the grinding wheel.  I think relying on the truing tool for keeping it is square and the diamond plate (used over a large range of its area) would be quite effective.  But...  I use my diamond plate "freehand", not clamped in any jig. 

Select diamond plates of the coarseness you wish to use for said grading.  The Tormek stone grade supposedly can be used, I bought a second one to dedicate for the SB stone, but it didn't seem to do anything and just got glazed (the grader).  A 1000 grit diamond plate is what I use for the SG grading, when I do any.  I think a lot of others do similar. 

That's a hoot.  I never noticed that search window in the upper right corner. 

I've always used the one that is in the header bar between "Home" and "Members (first photo), which brings up the more detailed options window (second photo).

I found this video on a YouTuber I follow and found it really interesting. I think I will invest in one.

https://youtu.be/wBGcfj6-J7Q?si=9domZyoAHvqYgvQr

That looks to be a good solution. Highly featured and good images. However, it is no longer available at the link below the video.  What is available is a larger screened one at $178. 

But, the one thing I took particular note of is the clear plastic shroud that he emphasizes.  Thumbs up.  That is precisely why I like the Kingmas hand microscope so much, maintains focus and the knife can be rotated, etc.  If it were available at the $60 price, I might be tempted. 

I'll watch his video reviewing the higher priced one to see if it has a similar shroud.  Without that, I think it would be a no go.

...snip...
Might work, but a lot of bother to set up and occupy space, unless its already set up near your sharpening station.  It may also depend on what you are hoping to do, such as moving the knife bevel along to get a view of more than just a small portion.  I tried looking a knife bevel, but found at that magnification, it was difficult to keep the bevel in the picture - tiny movements are magnified along with the object. 

I have a setup for scanning (copying/digitizing) negatives, slides and prints using a Nikon D780 and a either a Nikkor 60mm or 105mm Macro lens.  Takes great photos, but I would much rather be using the hand microscope I posted about earlier.
...snip...

That's a nice setup

Thanks.  In the world of digital camera scanning of negatives & slides, its relatively basic, but quite good enough for my needs.  Pipe stand, Manfroto Super Clamp, Benro 3-way geared tripod head, NISI focusing rail.  Even with all this, it is easy to have errant vibrations that can cause an image to be out of focus.  For instance, the floor in the room where it is, is not all that solid, and while my workbench is, even a little weight shift by me on the floor in front of it all can result in damaging vibrations.

Just to be clear, the image of the knife bevel was not shot with the digital camera. Rather it is what I see through the Kingmas hand microscope.  I don't have any images of knives taken with the digital camera because I just don't bother with it, the Kingmas is much easier and gives me the information I need.

If anyone is interested in more on close-up and macro photography, the absolute best references I've found are the two books by Lester Lefkowitz.  I have gotten rid of everything else. 

I know it might be a bit of a pain but I am wondering how a tethered image from my 25MP Nikon D750 would look on my HD monitor. 25MP allows me to zoom in on details without loss of image quality. I have a nice macro lens that would work well.

One word of caution with the inexpensive USB microscopes is that most are not compatible with your phone last time I looked at them.

Might work, but a lot of bother to set up and occupy space, unless its already set up near your sharpening station.  It may also depend on what you are hoping to do, such as moving the knife bevel along to get a view of more than just a small portion.  I tried looking a knife bevel, but found at that magnification, it was difficult to keep the bevel in the picture - tiny movements are magnified along with the object. 

I have a setup for scanning (copying/digitizing) negatives, slides and prints using a Nikon D780 and a either a Nikkor 60mm or 105mm Macro lens.  Takes great photos, but I would much rather be using the hand microscope I posted about earlier.

Image below shows what I can see and it is easy to travel along the whole length to see what the condition is.  There is a trick/learned process for maintaining focus that involves keeping the clear plastic base in contact with the knife the whole time and tipping the hand microscope to vary the focus point.  Takes up about the space of a cigarette lighter on the workbench. 

This has come up a few times in the past.  I tried several USB cameras and still went back to the Kingmas 60X hand microscope.  I have several around my shop for different things that I do.

If you do go with the USB type, I agree with Royale, get one with remote control of focus and magnification, as at high magnification, the slightest vibrations wreak havoc on the projected image. I've learned this recently as I explore the world of close-up and macro photography with digital cameras.

One very informative previous post, by grepper, provides good information.

A feature to look for in a USB camera is the ability to do in-camera focus stacking.  This is very useful for increasing the depth of focus, as at high magnification, the depth of focus of single shots is very narrow and gets more narrow with greater magnification.  A couple of posts regarding focus stacking,

Modified SVM-45 for adjustable offset

Sharpening a Ceramic Knife

...snip...
That said, how do I remove the excess of material towards the grip? I found a video on YT where someone repaired a similar knive by grinding away the excess metal with a belt sander before grinding the blade. I don't have a belt sander, can I use the standard (coarse) Tormek stone for this?

M.

PS. I now can add pics, this is the knive I want to sharpen.You cannot view this attachment.

Unlike yourself, I started with a belt grinder.  I use mine quite frequently for different needs when sharpening.  I have a 1x30 variable speed Rikon, but there are a ton of different units out there.  They can be pretty inexpensive and would quickly deal with that particular issue you're having.
If you're just sharpening your own knives it may be overkill , but you will find other uses as well.

A belt grinder could be an excellent option, if you do enough sharpening and need the heavier metal removal often enough.  I have two, a Viel 1x42 and now a Vevor 1x30.  I also have diamond and CBN wheels for my T8 and a Rikon slow speed bench grinder.  All cost a good bit (but not nearly as much as a Tormek) and all perform reasonably well. 

One note of caution, belt grinders can generate a lot of heat quickly, so to avoid ruining the temper, I highly recommend one that is variable speed.  I have just recently been using the Vevor 1x30 and it can be slowed to the same low surface speed as the Tormek grinding wheels.  It can also be reversed (through programming steps) to be able to run edge-trailing.  This machined, while running about $200 USD is one of the cheaper options (to diamond and CBN wheels) and is extremely versatile, being usable for general purpose grinding of all sorts of things.  It does generate that annoying grinding grit debris, however. 

However, I think the least expensive and appropriate for the occasional heavy grinding is a traditional high speed grinding wheel mounted/adapted to a Tormek.  There has been a lot of discussion on this forum, since at least 2010 about mounting Norton 3X (blue) grinding wheels of either 64 or 80 grit.

They can be quite aggressive, run in the water bath just like Tormek grinding wheels and trued using the Tormek truing tool.  At 1" width, and (at least in the USA) an arbor hole that requires custom sleeves to adapt to the Tormek 12mm shaft.  Ken S and I have been strong proponents of this method. 

If you do a search here for "Norton" or "Norton 3X" you will find so many posts, it may be difficult to find one specific to actually doing the adaptation.  It likely will require a bushing to adapt the arbor hole and some flange washers to take up space on the shaft, due to the difference in wheel width.  I machined both because I could.  Others have found creative ways, one being 12mm fender washers.  I think someone found an online source for an adapter.  Below is a photo of an 8" Norton 3X mounted on my T8 and another of the bushing and flange washers I machined.  Here is a video of truing a 10" no-name grinding wheel on my T8.

The reason I ask is that I am very happy with my current process of sharpening, diamond wheel then using the KS123 to set the same angle on the composite wheel as I suck at free hand honing, and a quick strop and I am good to go. Unfortunately, I have to take the diamond wheel off every time I strop which slows down my production. I contacted Tormek to see if they had any plans in the future for making a wheel the same 250mm as my diamond wheel so I didn't have to keep taking it off but unfortunately, they said no.

Looking on the internet, I found a company called SLIPAKNIVEN that sells felt deburring wheels that are 250mm so I checked on YouTube and found this video  https://youtu.be/-HBpsQn7frY?si=5Vz2_x34dnnYYCMC

It looks great and would solve a lot of my problems and was wondering if anyone has had any experience using one and the pro's and con's of them.

Thanks

I think there are multiple, confounding things going on here, both with your process and desires and with Vadim's video and they are interrelated and or multi-faceted (and I'm struggling to figure out where to start). 

1) set the same angle on the composite (for honing),
2) USB configuration, 
3) take the grinding wheel off every time, and
4) position of the honing wheel.

1) Same Angle:

After Vadim's game changing research on honing angles for different types of steel, it is clear that honing at the same angle as the bevel grinding angle is less effective than selectively and purposefully setting the angle 1-2º higher than the grinding angle is far more effective at removing the burr.  That is clearly shown in the linked video, but that is not even where he demonstrates it as effectively as in some of his other work.  If you haven't yet, get, study and understand Vadim's "Deburring Book".

2) USB Configuration:
You didn't say it, but is sounds like you are using the USB in the horizontal (front) slots for honing.  This was the standard Tormek method until Vadim invented the "Frontal Vertical Base" (FVB), which adds a vertical adjustment component to the front USB position.  Use of the FVB is clearly shown in Vadim's video and is key to, 1) lessening the conflict between the grinding and honing wheels and setting the honing angle to greater than the grinding angle.  The FVB has become such an integral part of using a Tormek that Tormek itself modified their (MB-100) Multi-Base to incorporate the same functionality as aftermarket FVBs (a highly unusual move for Tormek), in their MB-102 Multi-Base. 

3) Take the grinding wheel off every time:
The conflict between the honing and grinding wheels had been a long time problem, until advent of the FVB, necessitating removal of the grinding wheel in order to hone.  Using an MB-102 or FVB puts the USB at a higher position over the honing wheel and, depending on the knife, can eliminate or reduce the movement conflict with the grinding wheel.  This is still with using the leather or composite wheel for honing.  I am one of probably many that find it still works better to take the grinding wheel off every time when honing and for me it is just part of the process. 

4) Position of the honing wheel:
It sounds as though you want to put at 250mm honing wheel on the honing wheel side of your Tormek.  I think that will just exacerbate the conflict issues, even with the use of and FVB (or MB-102).  When I was using a 10" rock hard felt wheel for honing - it was mounted on the grinding wheel side of my T8, so honing was not done on the honing wheel side.  If you notice, this is exactly where Vadim has his felt wheel mounted.  Using the felt wheel in that position obligates changing the wheels every time.  It is inescapable.  One way to avoid this would be to have a second Tormek dedicated to honing. 

Looks like a really cool and useful tool.  As long as woodworkers have been dealing with that sort of need, why has this not been invented before?

I suspect the bump you removed in the rubber drive wheel had nothing to do with the drive, rather I think more likely it was from the machine sitting, unused for a long time, giving the drive shaft time to create a depression in the rubber.   

Keeping the knife jig collar against the support bar should come with experience.  I assume you are speaking of using it on the vertical bar, grinding edge-leading.  I wonder if you are exerting more pressure on the knife against the grinding wheel than is necessary, which could cause it to want to "travel with" the grinding wheel, pushing it away from the support bar.