Messages

At the risk of being branded a heretic, I happen to agree with you about using water stones for final polishing.  The Tormek certainly does a nice job of the heavy lifting.  I should make becoming skilled with the Tormek honing wheel a priority.  The problem may be operator inexperience, or the water stones may just work better.  The jury is still out for me.

In the meantime, the Tormek has made life more pleasant for my hands during the initial sharpening operations.

Ken

Rick I think you are probably right in thinking your dry grinder is the quicker machine for lathe tool bits.  However, if you were on a deserted island with only a Tormek, I'm sure you could get the job done.  The jigging could be quite simple.

I really enjoy the old movie, "A Man for all Seasons".  I consider the Tormek " A Tool for (almost) all Seasons".

Ken

Boomer, have you made a decision?

Interesting question, Rick.  My first thought would be to start with the flat Torlock jig.  Setting the angle of the Torlock to the wheel would adjust for one angle.  Making a pivoting registration stop would cover the second angle.  Having the pivoting registratin stop with the "flat" at an angle would cover the third angle.  One hole through the Torlock to secure the fulcrum point.  An arcing slot also through the Torlock would allow the registration stop to pivot.  Such a project should be easily done by a machinist.

The real question is how practical would it be. 

I hope others will respond.  Keep us posted.

Ken

Dakotapix, you bring up an interesting point about not wanting to dump the sludge water down your home drain.  I am in the same situation where I now live.  I agree with Herman about keeping the water changed.

Two ideas have come to mind.  For more than twenty years I have made my daily coffee using a small (#2) Melitta coffee filter.  It works well for one cup.  Melitta makes two larger filter sizes.  The larger, #6, might be large enough to efficiently handle the waste water from a Tormek.  I have a glass coffee pot with a plastic #6 filter.  I use it when we have company for coffee, which is rare.  I should try using it with the Tormek.

The second idea is to use paint filters, available from a paint store.  I recently purchased several with the intention of trying them with the Tormek.  I bought both fine and medium.  One filter might last through several Tormek sessions.

I hope we can get others to post on this. This is not a new situation.

Ken

I used that same poor chisel this week to help widen the opening in my new kitchen for the refrigerator.  The builder had cut the Corian and particle board under layer unsquare.  Also, I had to remove the part of the front oak board.  That valiant chisel did trooper service on particle board, glue, Corian, and oak before becoming dull. Actually most of the work was done by two routers, but the chisel did assist.

It's time to return to the Tormek.  I plan to keep the bevel at the new 30 degree angle.  For the nasty parts of real life, it works very well.

Ken

Welcome, Dakotapix. 

My original Tormek unit came with the regular shaft.  (Mine was a recent T-7; the shaft was stainless.)  I ordered and installed a replacement EZYlock shaft.  I really like it.  My only grumble is the lack of good written instructions.  Installation is almost intuitive.  Make a simple drawing of how your old shaft comes off and you will do fine.

Following Jeff''s advice, I removed the wheel before moving the machine.  ( I moved very recently.)  The EZYlock shaft makes removing and replacing the wheel quick an easy.  There have been recent postings on this forum about the pros and cons of removing the wheel between uses.  My unscientific gut feeling is for sporadic use, removing the wheel may not be a bad idea.  It can't hurt, and it might help.

With no more scientific evidence to substantiate the practice, I regularly dump and clean the water trough at the end of each session.  I happen to have easy access to running water in my shop now.  Before, when I worked out of my old garage, I just "recycled" a couple plastic bottles and filled them with water.  I dumped the old water on my gravel driveway and wiped out the trough out with a paper towel.  It isn't rocket science or tedious.  I believe working this way helps me sharpen better.  No science, just my gut.

My present Tormek came with the special sale free RB-180 revolving base.  (My original Tormek was stolen.)  I have not used it yet.  It looks like a useful device. My original motivation for purchasing a Tormek was my aching hands after flattening the backs on a set of chisels for a hand dovetailing class.  The Tormek does the hard grinding of sharpening.  In that spirit, I thing the revolving base will be beneficial for those of us who are no longer young.

I hope you will continue posting.  There is much we can learn through combining our experiences.

Ken

Elizabeth, Ron Hock's book, The Perfect Edge, has a well written section on different steels and how they sharpen. It is also a solid foundation book on sharpening.  Ron is a veteran blade maker. 

Ken

Well done, Herman and Robin.  Tormek AB seems responsive to customer needs.  The revolving base which came with my new unit seems cleverly designed and well manufactured.  The stainless steel EZYlock shaft is certainly an improvement.  Perhaps Tormek will manufacture a rugged plastic holder to secure the wheel safely when not in use.  It could provide adequate air space and ventilation to keep the wheel dry and also provide dust protection. 

Thanks for the responses.

Ken

Welcome to the forum, Dana.  I agree with Herman about using a more blunt angle.

I actually spend more time with the kitchen cutting board than with sharpening.  (I do the chopping and my wife does the cooking.)  I understand that  you should honor the knife owner's request for not quite sharp.  However, it is unfortunate that people feel that way.  Some customer education might be in order.

IMHO, most of the cutting boards sold are inadequate.  We live in a culture of large televisions and miniature cutting boards.  My cutting board is 18x24" and a couple inches thick.  I bought it many years ago at Williams Sonoma.  (It is made by John Boos Co.)  It was not cheap, nor is a Tormek.  However, both will give a lifetime of service. The larger work area makes life more pleasant, just like parking a car in a larger space.  You don't have to worry about over cutting the tiny board.

A well made, well sharpened knife is a joy to use.  It requires much less effort to use and allows much more control.  I enjoy my cutting time in the kitchen.....when the knives are sharp.  The greater control from using less force makes the cutting safer.

Many years ago on television, Jeff Smith, "The Frugal Gourmet", used to stress the importance of keeping your fingertips rolled under while chopping.  There is a learning curve with using kitchen knives.  Learning how to tie a bowline or taut hitch knot requires a little study. Becoming fluent with a computer likewise.  Our home cooking culture is learning the value of well designed and made heavier pans to help prevent burning food.  We need to learn the value and pleasure of proper preparation with sharp knives and cutting board.

By the way, "sharp" for kitchen knives doesn't mean highly polished.  Unlike woodworking tools, the blade should have a bit of "tooth" to prevent it from just sliding over the food.  The fine stone grit (1000) is a good place to start, and don't go too far beyond it.

Keep us posted.

Ken

Robin, good thought about the Brinnelling.

Herman might have a comment about one of the possible "side effects" of removing the wheel. (his wheel broke.)

The EZYlock makes removing the wheel effortless.  That would be a good argument for removal, whether or not the the Brinnell effect actually effected the Tormek in real life. The fly in the ointment might (or might not) be relocating the "sweet spot" when remounting the wheel.  Jeff has posted that even before the EZYlock he used to remove the wheel before travelling.  Hopefully he will have a comment.

Mike, I think this question is worthy of a little experimental time.  (I will be away from my Tormek for another few days with my move.)  Bathroom scales seem much more accurate in recent years.  I would be curious to know if there is an easily measurable weight difference between a wet wheel and a dry wheel.  Such a weight difference in itself would not be significant.  However, it might indicate the amount of the drying effect of running the wheel without water briefly to allow centrifugal force to work.

I have no idea without trying it, however, the next time I use the Tormek, I will put the Ohm meter across it dry and wet to see if there is any change in electrical resistance.  That's the method used with moisture meters for wood  and lie detectors.  Perhaps someone from the engineering department in Sweden might chime in.

Ken

Very good point, Rhino. 

For me, and perhaps others among the silent people on the forum, sharpening is as much of a fascination as a practical skill.  The T3 wasn't an available option when I bought my T7.  The lower price as well as the lighter weight and compactness would have been compelling factors.  The heavier motor and larger wheel might have carried the day, but not without serious competition.

I enjoy combining and/or modifying technologies to be able to do more with tools.  Earlier dialog posts with Ionut on this forum are examples of that (small blade and mortise chisel jig modifications).

I haven't physically modified my Tormek yet.  That may come in the future. (I have a second Torlock jig waiting for a hacksaw modification.)  I have modified my Omnijig (router dovetail jig).  With it I can now cut through and half blind dovetails of several pitches, dados, and three sizes of box joints.  I'm not done yet.  A regular small dovetail jig would suffice; the modified Omnijig is more fun.

The Tormek seems like an evolving machine.  Like Rhino, I find that fascinating,

Boomer, you seem more focused.  You have a very definite use in mind.  That's good.  I think we need both the practical and the impractical.  Do keep us posted.

Ken

Boomer,

I was thinking about your post while making the 2 1.2 hour commute to my very soon to be permanent address.

I'm sure the T7 would serve your needs.  That said, I think you should look very seriously at the T3.  I have no actual statistics on the forum makeup.  This is my gut feeling:  i believe most of us, like me, are hobbyists.  As such, we give a lot of consideration to "someday you might want to sharpen whatever".  I don't see you ever wanting to sharpen planer blades or anything requiring the heavier machine.

You have a definite focus.  one of the reasons most of us have T7 or similar units is that the smaller units were only sold to a European market until recently.  The motors were incompatible with   NOrth American commercial power.

Costwise, I believe the T3 does not include the diamond dresser or stone grader in the basic package.  You will want these two accessories, unless ou plan on making your chef's knives into paring knives.  (Knife sharpening is generally done with the fine grading on the stone.) i would suggest you calculate the cost of the unit with these two accessories for a real world cost comparison.

You will want to consider the more pronounced hollow grind effect of the eight inch wheel and the lighter duty motor.  These may or may not be a problem.  I suspect they won't be.

The more compact size and lighter weight might be an advantage.

Sorry if I leave you with more questions than answers.  It is an interesting question.  I suspect you wouldn't go too far wrong with either.

I hope this post produces more thoughts.

Good luck, and keep us posted, not only on your choice, but how it works out for you

Ken

Good thoughts, Mike and Jeff.

Mike, with my move situation, you are much closer to your Tormek now than I am.  The next time you use it, would you please note how much, if any, water drips into the dry trough after you are finished and clean the trough?  Please post your results.  That should answer that question.

I think the real concern is not so much dripping water as being sure the wheel does not remain damp.

Another thought related to your comment, Mike:  I agree with you about not wanting the work station to be a constraint.  In just the three years since I purchased my Tormek, i have added the improved shaft and water trough; the drill bit jig; and revolving base to the items which were available at purchase time.  I don't remember when the two extra wheels were first introduced.  Among the extra "stuff" acculmuted are an extra SE-76 and extra older chisel jig and Torlock related to ideas inspired by posts with Ionut. This is a long way to say I will allow plenty of space for future growth in the work station.

Jeff, you have posted about how you built your station, inspired by your visit with Norm Abram.  (i have the CD and measured drawing for that.  It's a great starting design.)  I also get the impression you are a staunch user of the original wheel.  Do you use the extra wheels, and, if so, how do you store them?

One quik thought about drying a wheel:  I would think a very short time running the machine with the wheel attached dry would help force most of the dampness out.  Thoughts?

Are the other regulars still on extended vacations?  How about some thoughts, guys.

Ken

Mike, thanks for your thoughts.

I don't think Tormek has really addressed this issue.  That may be because the interchangeable wheels are a fairly new addition to the system.  And/or because many of the specialized wheel users may not change wheels very often.  For example, a turner using high speed steel tools might just leave the SB wheel on the machine. A carver might just leave the SJ wheel in place and "refresh" sharpen often.

Like you, I am leaning toward vertical storage.  I know it's overkill, however, I happen to have the older Tormek water trough and stainless steel shaft in my Tormek accessories/spare parts box.  I don't remember if the EZYlock shaft replacement kit included a new washer or not.  The stainless nut would certainly work with a hardware store stainless metric bolt.  (I'm not losing my memory; my Tormek is 150 miles away from my computer.  I'm in the process of moving.) A half inch bolt would work fine, too. The water trough is perfectly sized, although part of a quart plastic bottle or something similar recycled from the kitchen would work just as well.  Changing wheels would mean changing the water in the trough.  A very short "spin cycle" without water should mostly dry out the wheel.

I don't think I would be doing much "on the fly" changing between the standard wheel and the SB.  Sharpening my jointer or Lion trimmer blades is more of a separate activity. Likewise with sharpening a dozen drill bits.  If I needed to touch up one drill bit mid project, I don't think I would bother changing the wheel.

The SJ wheel was a very recent purchase at a rare bargain price.  Time will tell if it replaces my old fine grit water stones. I don't think I would change wheels mid project to resharpen a single chisel.  The leather honing wheel seems more efficient for that.  I would be more apt to change to the SJ wheel after sharpening several chisels and perhaps a couple plane blades.  This would be an end of the day or end of the project chore.  I set the wheel distance and vary the blade projection to change bevel angles.  I would sharpen all the blades with the regular wheel before switching wheels for honing.

Ken