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The Japanese stone is available for the T-4... the SiC Blackstone is not (yet). 😊

While size/weight is a factor, I think "how much" sharpening is an important factor... for example the "continuous motor" on the T-8.  And of course budget plays a factor, although the T-4 seems pretty solid for being the less expensive choice, there's advantages to the larger machine.

One point that I would be curious about, that maybe someone can answer that's used both, is the accuracy of the setup between the two... particularly on woodworking tools that seem to require it.

Not a solution for most I know, but I was able to rig up the clamp from the KME by adding a larger washer, and nut, to sorta mimic the Tormek jig (see attached pic).  (The KME clamp is self-centering).

The jig actually rides on the nut across the Universal Support.  Which got me wondering if something could be added to the standard jig at the Support area, to "ride on" when a slight angle change is needed for thicker knives?  Might be an alternative to grinding jigs or making a manual adjustment every time the blade is flipped.  Just an idea.

Congrats cbwx, it seems you have come up with the laser guided setup as first. My flat platform with laser pointer is only some two years old. 

Jan

Congrats to you... yours is certainly better planned and implemented than what I cobbled together.  Inspiring for sure.

So, while I continue with the "Quick & Easy" Jig setup,   I thought I'd share a method that I've had better luck with. 

A few years back, I came up with a "laser guided" setup for a set of paper sharpening wheels, that worked well.  I tried it on the Tormek, and while initially it didn't work so well, once I figured out to mark the wheel and use that to set the guide, it came together.  Here's an older picture...



So, I thought it cool to see that some in this forum had come up something similar, for example Jan in this thread...

https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=2562.45

... who came up with a pretty elaborate setup...



... (certainly more elaborate than mine). 

So, if you're not familiar, basically you set the angle by setting the laser line to the matching angle on the wheel, then holding the blade level, (held freehand in my case, it appears Jan uses a platform on his)... you sharpen at that specific point on the wheel, which sets the bevel (or grinding) angle.



You get a pretty accurate way of sharpening at a specific angle, and is way more accurate (for me anyway) than trying to "best guess" a spot on the stone, or pick a reference point (for example a point on the case)... especially for repeated passes.  (This never worked well for me).

The angles are marked on the wheel from the top in 5˚ or 10˚ increments (your choice).  (Every .436in. or 10.90mm is 5˚ on a 250mm or 10in. stone, if my math is right).

I might eventually come up with a better bracket, but this is quick and easy, and works well, with items I had around the house, or easy to get at the local hardware store (although I may shorten the clamp a bit to get it out of the way).

(BTW, while the laser goes across both wheels, it would have to be reset on the leather wheel if needed... the angles don't correspond).

Definitely a quick and easy way to establish a specific angle, and with a bit of practice is pretty precise. (And no jigs/clamps to fuss with).

Chopstick bonus:  In addition to using it as a reference to set the wheel, (described earlier here)..

https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=3323.0

... if you take two chopsticks and stick them in the stone's pivot hole, it makes it easy to line up and mark the stone from the angle marks measured earlier, (at every 5˚ or 10˚), to the center of the hole. 

Some two years ago I have posted about my flat platform prototype. For blades of the same thickness you set the bevel angle only once. You can sharpen in both directions. https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=2562.135

It works fine, but currently for some reasons I prefer to sharpen using the knife jig guided by the USB. For angle setting I use the kenjig concept.

Jan

I saw that... (and in fact was just writing a post related to that). 

The distance 29.3 mm is measured from the shaft central line to the base of the T7 housing. Wootz uses the name "constant vertical" for it.

It is a pity that Wootz script disappeared from the thread. Let me know if you are interested in it and I will try to find a copy.

Jan

Thanks for the additional info. (I don't think I can use the script).

I have found studying past posts an invaluable source of information. Wootz is very innovative, and also does a very good job of discovering and evaluating things. In his posts he discusses variations on the universal support, including Robin Bailey's extended supportand Tormek's US 400, designed for the Tormek 4000, a specialized machine (now out of production, and predecessor of the T2). I have found Robin Bailey's support useful and plan to purchase a US400. I have heard that Tormek plans to make a limited production run of them.

My main frustration with the forum format (all forums) is that some valuable information is ephemeral, and quickly disappears into the past. I have made printed copies of some posts; I wish I had done this more extensively.

Ken

I'm interested in the US400... please keep me posted.  (I think the one from Bailey is no longer available).

Definitely a lot of good info in previous threads!

Sounds like a busy day.  I think it's good you pointed out how quickly you can get the job done... many describe the Tormek as "too slow".

Need to talk you (or someone around you) to shoot some video.  Bet it would've been interesting.

Thanks for sharing.  (Knife mag. info sounds interesting too).

Cbwx, congrats, it is a very nice setup which is based on original Tormek components only! 

It works correctly for horizontally positioned blade and properly oriented grindstone with angular marks. The blade horizontality may be a minor difficulty of this setup's because it may require to adjust both USBs when the projection length has changed. The adjustable stop may help to avoid the necessity to change the USBs setup.

Please be so kind and remind me where I have used the "29.3" value you have quoted. I have already forgotten where it was. 

Jan

Thanks.  It is one of the goals to sorta "stay within the system".

The "29.3" was from this post by wootz https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=2969.msg15686#msg15686 (from the thread you posted the link to earlier).

So, the next version may turn out no better than the last... definitely would have to take "quick" out of the setup.



My thought was to "approximate" the slope of the stone in the angle area most commonly sharpened at for example 15˚-25˚ (I know it's not a real slope, but hopefully get the idea), which would allow for a quick angle change.  Anyway, it works... but I can't find any real rules for the setup... just sort of hit/miss to dial it in.  And since there's several variables to account for (distance of base support, angle of 2nd support, projection length, wheel size, etc.), that changing one starts it all over.  (And only works on the horizontal support... not seeing it on the vertical).  If anyone has any idea on dialing it in somehow... love to hear it.  After many trials, I can occasionally hit on a setup that works well... (or I can just set up for one particular knife and angle, which isn't that hard, but not 'quick')... but change one aspect, and it throws it all off.... 

Problem is, I like the setup...  where it puts the knife in relation to the stone (and me)... very comfortable position and dynamics to sharpen with.  There's some other "logistical" issues (for example, probably need a longer base Universal Support), but not to that point yet.

I read the link to the other thread Jan posted (several times)... to be honest, can't totally figure it out.  I understand it in principle, (sort of I guess), but can't for example figure out where the "29.3" measurement comes from?  Anyway, if there's a clue in there to what I'm doing... not seeing it.  Guess my math skills are rusty... 

Still working with it though... input appreciated! 

I may be glad Part 1 "failed", 'cause Part 2...



... coming soon!   

(Get your red "grading pens" ready!)
(Plus, I may need help "dialing it in"... if it turns out it's even feasible). 

I'm guessing the "devil is in the details"... on the 4000 knives/month part.

I'm all for tips!  Smoke 'em.... errrr..... post 'em if you got 'em!

Jan... thanks for the link.  I'm reading through the whole thread, so may take some time.  (Also some of your pictures seem to be missing, which, while not impossible, makes it a bit harder to follow).

Just out of curiosity... has anyone ever just marked the Universal Support to quickly set the distance?  It would seem that marking the support might be an alternative way to set it vs. the Kenjig.  (BTW, I don't at all think the Kenjig is a bad idea... just thinking of a way of setting multiple distances).  My idea would be to mark it, for example, with a letter indicator, that could then be matched to the chart similar to the "Grinding Angle Adjustment" booklet.  Then as the wheel wears, flip the page to show the new dimensions, and corresponding letter.  Initial setup might take a bit of time, but once done, it would last as long as the machine.  Just an idea.

Edit to add:  In thinking about the "Kenjig" a bit more... if I were to insure that the knife is set at approximately the same "projection length" (which the Kenjig requires anyway)... then I could use the marks on the wheel (in either direction) to set whatever angle I would want as I was doing before... correct?  I just need to include the projection length into it, (and no need for the actual jig to set the support distance).
(Don't let this detract from the "marking the Univ. Support" question though, still curious about that too).

I rechecked the installation of my BGM 100 and it appears to be spot on with the instructions in the manual. 

I have no idea, just a suggestion.  If you can, it might be worthwhile to post a picture or two of your setup... someone here might be able to spot if something isn't quite right.

There is some advantage to using a pointer and reference mark to quickly index the wheel to an exact position. I tried a couple of other ways, but I'm sure as most of you here already know, it doesn't take much change to affect the angle, so it has to be pretty "dialed in".

Not sure about measuring the angles as you're asking?  If you're thinking along the lines of how Steve Bottorff marks the wheel... no it won't measure in that way.  As has already been shown though... the angle part of this is a bit of a bust, since the "projection length" affects the result.

Still, I'll probably pursue this off the horizontal support... since the error isn't too significant, and for most knives it wouldn't matter.  Maybe get a better idea of how the projection length affects it.  Off the vertical support though, I'm thinking it might be too large to quickly adjust for.  It could be dealt with... but would probably be simpler at that point to just use the AngleMaster.

Thanks.

There goes my dream of selling CRPs (Chopstick Reference Pointers)....