Recent posts

#1

Tormek T-1 and T-2 / Re: revisiting a firestorm

Last post by Ken S - Today at 06:04:59 PM

TGB,

I respect the case you have presented. At this point, I would like to suspend this conversation, leaving you with the last word. I want to do careful testing with my T2 and photograph the bevels. (With my family obligations this may not be speedy.) When I complete this testing, I will post the photos, regardless of which position they support. Is that agreeable with you?

Just out of curiosity, do you have any hands on experience with the T2?

Ken

#2

Knife Sharpening / Re: Rock hard felt wheel suppl...

Last post by Sharpski - Today at 04:16:08 PM

THe felt wheel Vadim (RIP) used was produced by the chinese company Ningbo Purui Polishing Company.

https://www.puruipolishing.com/product/10-inch-rock-hard-felt-wheel/

Regards,
Drilon

Thanks for the info, I Will contact them to see if there is any flexibility on the minimum quantity for order.

Have you ordered from them in the past? What is shipping time and price like?

#3

Knife Sharpening / Re: New angle jig KS-123

Last post by cbwx34 - Today at 03:07:36 PM

I've just watched the video where Tormek demonstrate the use of the KS-123.

I don't know yet if I'm going to buy one, because I feel the calculator method serves me so well. Still it is quite appealing to dispense with measurements, especially the wheel diameter one. All in all, if I didn't have my vernier calipers already, the KS-123 would be the obvious choice. It is not very expensive.
I don't find it's necessary to measure the wheel diameter as accurately as once claimed.  A simple ruler will suffice, and only needs to be updated periodically.  I mark the measurement on the wheel with a Sharpie, and don't bother checking it again until the marking is worn off.
A few comments on the video :
- I would have loved to have a vernier on the jig itself. Not necessarily to chase one tenth of a degree, but rather to improve the overall precision. Maybe they could just add a few markings on the composite needle plate that would help with centering on degrees or half degrees marks.
I think the markings are adequate... it's pretty easy to judge "half degrees" if wanted.  But really not necessary for its intended purpose.
- It's quite funny to see them still struggling with their explanation that earlier methods (AngleMaster, uncontrolled honing, ...) were "not complex, but more complex" but really you should buy the KS-123 (and the MB-102).
Tormek has always "struggled" denied that the AngleMaster didn't work properly on knives with a taper... so probably the reason they struggle now?
- Couldn't the KS-123 also be used in combination with the sharpie trick to measure the edge angle of an unknown knife ?
Yes, once you do the "sharpie trick" just set the Projection Distance (or "protrusion" as Tormek calls it) on the KS-123, "snap" it on the USB, set it on the wheel per instructions, and it will tell you the angle.
- The fact that the KS-123 can be used with the SVM-00 assumes that it is easy to center the blade with respect to the plane of symmetry of the SVM-00. Spoiler alert: it is not. so using it the way it is demonstrated with a sloyd knife is a recipe for disaster: one will most certainly alter the edge angle of the knife and make it assymetrical. If you want to use the KS-123 with the SVM-00, you should take the time to center the blade first, with careful and repeated use of the sharpie trick. If it were easy, it would be demonstrated by Wolfgang in his video about the SVM-00. On the contrary, Wolfgang explains how to not center it.
Obviously depends on the knife, but I've used the SVM-00 a bit (more when I used a Wicked Edge sharpener for some reason), and didn't think it was that difficult to set up a knife... does take a bit of practice though.

Of course, some of the above depends on your methodology... if "decimal point" accuracy is important, I think a calculator will still be the preferred way to set things up, as well as more accurate measurements.

Dutchman, what side piece are you referring to ?

I'm guessing the MB-100 portion where you sharpen on the side of the wheel.

#4

Knife Sharpening / Re: ceramic knives with the S ...

Last post by tgbto - Today at 02:56:54 PM

Common steel does not get microchipped like ceramics do, in the same way that hitting a plastic bottle with a stone will not have the same result as with a glass bottle. Sure, you might end up with breaking the bottle in the end in both cases, but through different deformation/fracturation mechanisms. Which will also result in quite different particle sizes.

And to be fair some very hard steels tend to microchip too, but they're not the common lot of knife steels.

I think steel particles found in the trough after grinding on a fine-graded SG will be at least one order of magnitude smaller than what you're showing.

#5

Knife Sharpening / Re: ceramic knives with the S ...

Last post by cbwx34 - Today at 02:31:33 PM

The particles seem quite coarse. So it looks more like the edge is somehow getting microchipped away. It would be interesting if you could somehow get a microscope shot of the edge and the particles.

Can't really do microscope pics... mainly just wanted to show the wheel does abrade away ceramic.  (In reality, doesn't the wheel also "microchip" steel to an extent?  You're left with a similar "dust" in the water.)  I can tell you that running a fingernail down the edge is pretty smooth.

#6

Knife Sharpening / Re: New angle jig KS-123

Last post by tgbto - Today at 02:04:02 PM

Dutchman, what side piece are you referring to ?

#7

Knife Sharpening / Re: ceramic knives with the S ...

Last post by tgbto - Today at 02:01:08 PM

The particles seem quite coarse. So it looks more like the edge is somehow getting microchipped away. It would be interesting if you could somehow get a microscope shot of the edge and the particles.

#8

Knife Sharpening / Re: New angle jig KS-123

Last post by Dutchman - Today at 11:36:06 AM

Based on the film, you can have all kinds of suspicions of problems that may occur, but believe me, using the KS-123 is very convincing in its simplicity, precision and speed of use.
I even ordered the MB-102 now to be able to use the KS-123 with the honing wheel as well. But it's a pity that I also have to pay for that side piece for use with the side of diamond wheels.  I will only use the MB-102 as a vertical base, replacing the construction I have now.

#9

Knife Sharpening / Re: New angle jig KS-123

Last post by tgbto - Today at 11:04:33 AM

I've just watched the video where Tormek demonstrate the use of the KS-123.

I don't know yet if I'm going to buy one, because I feel the calculator method serves me so well. Still it is quite appealing to dispense with measurements, especially the wheel diameter one. All in all, if I didn't have my vernier calipers already, the KS-123 would be the obvious choice. It is not very expensive.

A few comments on the video :
- I would have loved to have a vernier on the jig itself. Not necessarily to chase one tenth of a degree, but rather to improve the overall precision. Maybe they could just add a few markings on the composite needle plate that would help with centering on degrees or half degrees marks.
- It's quite funny to see them still struggling with their explanation that earlier methods (AngleMaster, uncontrolled honing, ...) were "not complex, but more complex" but really you should buy the KS-123 (and the MB-102).
- Couldn't the KS-123 also be used in combination with the sharpie trick to measure the edge angle of an unknown knife ?
- The fact that the KS-123 can be used with the SVM-00 assumes that it is easy to center the blade with respect to the plane of symmetry of the SVM-00. Spoiler alert: it is not. so using it the way it is demonstrated with a sloyd knife is a recipe for disaster: one will most certainly alter the edge angle of the knife and make it assymetrical. If you want to use the KS-123 with the SVM-00, you should take the time to center the blade first, with careful and repeated use of the sharpie trick. If it were easy, it would be demonstrated by Wolfgang in his video about the SVM-00. On the contrary, Wolfgang explains how to not center it.

#10

Tormek T-1 and T-2 / Re: revisiting a firestorm

Last post by tgbto - Today at 09:11:18 AM

I do take issue with your comment about the T2 being for customers who "don't care about bevel looks". Before composing this, I sharpened several kitchen knives with my T2. The bevels looked fine to me.

I understand why you may feel the way you do. The technique for the T2 differs significantly from our old standby technique for the T8s, etc. We were all taught to lift the knife rather than pivot. That works fine with a T8, but not with the T2. Different does not necessarily mean better or worse.

Ken, this is not a question of how I feel or how the edge of a particular knife looks. This is a question of geometry : the T2 is a constant angle sharpener, so if the thickness at the tip of the knife differs from what it is along the flat or belly of the knife, then the bevel width *will* vary. In this respect, the T2 will have the same problems encountered by those who who use a Trizor XV, or who pivot without lifting on a Tormek using the laser line: some (many) bevels will get wider, some (a few) will get narrower. And of course some (in between) won't vary. However the sharpener has no control over this.
And I didn't say this was necessarily worse : some will prefer to maintain a constant angle at the expense of looks because the blade cuts consistently from tip to heel. For knives that get thicker though, it will require accepting the difference in looks *and* heavy grinding the first time to reshape the tip. Again, no choice.

I sharpen knives as a hobby but I sharpen those of a professional, high-end chef, who happens to be a friend. He wouldn't care if most of his knives were altered in the tip area. But along with a couple of his chefs, he owns a few knives that he cherishes, and whoever touches them had better make sure they look the same after sharpening. The same is true for many knife enthusiasts.

I'm sure the shot angles in the T2 (101 or 202) videos are carefully chosen, as well as the knife for the demo. I'll gladly send Tormek the reference for a knife and wager a T8 that, when sharpened with a T2 for the first time, will be "sharpie trick compliant" for 80 to 90% of the blade and then completely off at the tip.

The T2 and T1 are targeted for niche markets. Neither is a general purpose machine. In my humble opinion, each of them suits their targeted niches very well.

Agreed, yet again for T2 the target seems to be (I quote Tormek) a "professional kitchen". Which you might agree is quite different from a "knife only sharpening business".
I don't take time to reply to each post where you make the case for the T2 for a professional sharpener just for fun. I genuinely think that not being extremely clear about the consequences of constant-angle sharpening in that use case is paving the way for disappointment and waste of time/money.

If I were to become a "knife only side job sharpener", I'd rather go with a variable-speed belt sander, a coarse-to-ultrafine-grit set of belts and a leather belt, a BGM 100, USB-430 and a knife jig.

Using this setup, curious how would you set up and ensure repeatable 15 dps (or 12, or 17)?

An example can be found in this post. It can be replicated on most backstands, sometimes even without the need for the BGM+USB. An angle cube plus the constant projection method allow for serial sharpening.