AngleJig

[cbwx34]

...
Moreover you can print these setting, use it for current session and keep it to next one (useful for diamond and CBN wheels).
...

I did it for you. In my tables 

I don't think so. I cannot find/load knife related data in your tables. Where is last grinded angle, protrusion, clamping, used jig, procedure etc.? 

Yeah... it's a bit of an "apples to oranges" comparison.  Both have their place... but a different purpose.

[Ken S]

We are looking for a one size fits all for a multifaceted problem. What might be an ideal solution for very high end sharpening would be impractical for garden variety sharpening. I do not feel that one technique is inheritently superior, nor do I feel that the methods are mutually exclusive.

Frankly, I am impressed with jvh's angle jig idea. I am impressed enough to have started research and price the Bosch tool. I may eventually invest in one; however, at this point, my sharpening budget has enough other priorities to make $200 US for the Bosch tool and inclinometer impractical for my needs.

As noted, the kenjig has some limitations. I do not find that any of these limitations exceed my needs. I work simply. A Projection of 139mm and bevel angles of 15 degrees per side are almost universal for me. Distance changes due changing wear diameter are becoming increasingly more rare. Diameter of any of the Tormek honing wheels has always been constant. Increasingly, we are using diamond of CBN grinding wheels with constant diameters. Even felt or paper wheels are either constant diameter or change very slowly.
For most of us, even the SG or SB wheels change diameter very slowly.

All of these factors do not negate the importance of our calculated setting programs. I find them useful in initial set up. I do not see much need for them in my everyday sharpening needs. I acknowledge that some user's needs may be more stringent than mine. I also believe that the needs of the typical Tormek user are no more demanding than mine. For many years, my printed out copy of Dutchman's original grinding angle booklet post and kenjigs have served me well.

I do not mean to disparage those providing more advanced research. I believe in the maxim that a rising tide floats all boats. We are certainly all benefitting from these sharpening innovations.

Ken

[jvh]

Ken,

no problem with that, well argumented as usual. If it fulfil your needs and you are satisfied with outputs there is no reason for changes.

If you want to try angle jig you need inclinometer only. Don't buy Bosch GAM because it is angle meter and it has limited usage. I used it just for checking t angle and it collide with table, water trough etc. I have it primarily for woodworking...

jvh

[Ken S]

Thanks, JVH.

I will look into getting an inclinometer. Beall Tools is located near my grandchildren's school.

Ken

[Ken S]

JVH,

I sent you a PM.

Ken

[Tukkis]

I want to pump this post up, how is this setup working and has it developed any?

When switching to honing wheel can i get a same accurate angle easily with digital angle guide?


-Tukkis

[cbwx34]

I want to pump this post up, how is this setup working and has it developed any?

When switching to honing wheel can i get a same accurate angle easily with digital angle guide?


-Tukkis

While I liked the concept, I have to admit that I never used it beyond initial testing.

You might also look at the information and spreadsheet in this thread...  https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=4885

[3D Anvil]

I haven't tried this method, but posting to point out that there are many cheaper alternatives to the Bosch angle finder that are probably more than accurate enough for this.  They can be found on Amazon for $16-22.

[SergeiDubovsky]

Please pardon me if it's a stupid question - is the change in a protrusion length of a jig+blade changes the edge angle?

[cbwx34]

Please pardon me if it's a stupid question - is the change in a protrusion length of a jig+blade changes the edge angle?

The angle used for the Angle Cube is set with the same parameters as any other method (Projection Length, Sharpening Angle, etc.), so I guess the answer is Yes, but it is accounted for.  (The length of the platform you set that Angle Cube on doesn't matter, as long as it's >= the Projection length.)

[SergeiDubovsky]

I got it. I was thinking about this wrong way. The angle is used to set the USB height. The knife jig have nothing to do with it.

Clever.

Arriving Wednesday
BOSCH 4-in-1 Digital Angle Finder GAM 220 MF

[jvh]

Please pardon me if it's a stupid question - is the change in a protrusion length of a jig+blade changes the edge angle?

Hello,

yes, changing the protrusion length also changes the edge angle, it is always necessary to specify the correct protrusion length for the calculation.

The angle used for the Angle Cube is set with the same parameters as any other method (Projection Length, Sharpening Angle, etc.), so I guess the answer is Yes, but it is accounted for.  (The length of the platform you set that Angle Cube on doesn't matter, as long as it's >= the Projection length.)

A small correction, just to be sure - the platform you set the Angle Cube on must be placed over the USB and the highest point on the stone (= must be long enough).

jvh

[Columbo]

Hello everyone,

let me introduce AngleJig, another way how to set your Tormek for grinding. 

Basic idea is simple -  the angle formed by the tangents between the wheel and the universal support can be used for settings USB's heights. Angle t (tau) can be measured directly with suitable angle meter or indirectly with an inclinometer. Fixed jigs (e.g. plywood triangles) can be used with an angle ruler for direct setting too, it is similar as KenJig, but probably not so fast.

According to the performed tests the accuracy of setting is high, the large distance between the measuring points is very helpful. Setting with inclinometer is very easy, quick and universal for me and requires steel bar (magnetic) with stop pin only.

All calculations will be included in the new version of TormekCalc2, the functionality is ready, I'm still considering the look of the user interface...

For more information see pictures.


jvh


Bosch GAM 220 MF accuracy ±0,1°
Inclinometer INSIZE 2170-1 accuracy ±0,1° at 0° and 90°, other values ±0,2°

[/quote

Hello everyone,

let me introduce AngleJig, another way how to set your Tormek for grinding. 

Basic idea is simple -  the angle formed by the tangents between the wheel and the universal support can be used for settings USB's heights. Angle t (tau) can be measured directly with suitable angle meter or indirectly with an inclinometer. Fixed jigs (e.g. plywood triangles) can be used with an angle ruler for direct setting too, it is similar as KenJig, but probably not so fast.

According to the performed tests the accuracy of setting is high, the large distance between the measuring points is very helpful. Setting with inclinometer is very easy, quick and universal for me and requires steel bar (magnetic) with stop pin only.

All calculations will be included in the new version of TormekCalc2, the functionality is ready, I'm still considering the look of the user interface...

For more information see pictures.


jvh


Bosch GAM 220 MF accuracy ±0,1°
Inclinometer INSIZE 2170-1 accuracy ±0,1° at 0° and 90°, other values ±0,2°

Thank you for posting.

I know this is an older post, but hopefully you see this, sir.

I am new and still learning a quick way for angle guys instead of using a Calculator an app.

Can the Bosch digital ruler simply be used once by laying it over the USB and onto the 250 wheel find ones desired Sharpening angle while using the t8?

For the risk of sounding ignorant, I've tried to double check the angle while having the knife in one of Tom Ask Jigs zeroing out a digital angle cube placing it on the blade and if I'm not mistaken, it gave me a reading of high 20s or 30s. But when I set the knife while in the jig on Tormek's 123 angle finder the readings of the angle differ.
What am I missing?
I guess I'd rather not use an app calculator, or a made up reference jig,my hope is, in the ideal world can we use an incline metre or a digital queue, simply place it on the blade to find a desired angle.
I've been reading many posts so I find I can digest while others. I am not.

I also must add that I'm using a different wet grinding machine as I do have two Tormek T8 anyway but I'm testing this machine while Sharpening above exactly the way we would with the USB above the stone, which is also a 250 MM.
So again, is it possible to use a digital cube or a digital ruler such as the Bosch while rested on the USB and the Stone to find the desired angle and if need be just lower or heighten the usb?

Maybe long-winded but hopefully, I illuminated this correctly.
PS: now if the Calculator works for some of you fine that's great. I'd rather not hear that's not complicate things or what have you because really I'm not complicated things. I'm trying to eliminate Steps if there are any by using one object or two objects or another object to even verify that I'm on the right path with the method I'm using just like an academics. Thank you, thank you thank you Phil.

[tgbto]

Phil,

I'm not sure I understood properly, but I think what you're measuring with your AngleCube or such is the angle between the horizontal plane and the side of the blade.

The main part of the difference here is that the knife does not contact the wheel exactly at the top of the wheel. So to find the correct angle, you'd have to mark the radius of the wheel at which the apex of the knife makes contact, then measure the angle between this radius and the vertical, and subtract this angle from what you found previously (if the contact happens further away than the top of the wheel, which is usually the case).

You are also dealing with a lesser error : the blade is usually tapered, so the side of the blade is usually at an angle with the plane of symmetry of the blade. So you'd have to measure the taper angle : you can clamp the blade in a vise and take one measurement on each side, then divide the difference by two. Once you have this difference, you have to subtract it to the angle you read on the angle cube resting on the side of the blade.

For more on this, here is a link to a geogebra page I designed where you can easily play with this subject, no advanced mathematics involved. The first error is the angle between the dashed line (from the center of the wheel to the point of contact) and the vertical axis. Or the other dashed line (tangent to the wheel at the point of contact) and the horizontal axis.

Hope this helps !