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#81

General Tormek Questions / Re: Ultrasonic cleaner to remo...

Last post by Ken S - June 12, 2025, 01:11:28 AM

Do not be discouraged. While discovering something new is valuable, discovering a new useful application is also useful, as when the Corning engineer's wife discovered that the glass designed for locomotive headlights also worked well for kitchen ware. Today we know this as Pyrex.

Ken

#82

General Tormek Questions / Re: Ultrasonic cleaner to remo...

Last post by John Hancock Sr - June 12, 2025, 12:35:29 AM

Am I the first one in the history of the world to discover this?

Sorry to burst your bubble but not really. I could not find any reference to deburring knives with ultra sonics so this may be new, but there are people deburring parts post machining using ultrasonics so the technique is not new. From what I can find it is extremely effective and your results are consistent which what I see on machined part deburring.

#83

General Tormek Questions / Re: Ultrasonic cleaner to remo...

Last post by Clickngofar - June 11, 2025, 09:30:50 PM

That sounds really promising. Judging from your BESS scores, you probably do a lot more after you first hone on the leather wheel, don't you ?

Not sure what you mean here. After the honing process I usually strop on a horizontal cow leather. Can't buy kangaroo strops here in NZ, much to my displeasure. But you notice I never stropped the carver at all, and the results were outstanding.
Which raises the question is it even necessary? Let the USC do the work!

If that's not asking too much, do you think you could :
- Try this method after just SG grinding + leather wheel/PA 70 honing, and see how BESS scores are affected ?

Um, that's exactly what I did.
I was aiming for the best possible grind and hone i could do, and so for the first time ever I hones on the front jig holder and took extra care to adjust the angle in small increments to break off the burr as carefully as possible. I think that also will become standard practice in future for me.
I only use the standard leather wheel with the Tormek paste, but I'm keen to get another fresh wheel and try the Veritas Chromium oxide paste. This is what Dr Verdim recommends. 

- Tell us what you find in the bath with a knife that would have been cleaned in the US bath before being ground (and rinsed as well as possible under running water after honing) ? It would be interesting to get a good look at metal particles left inside the bath...

Agreed that would be interesting, but simple logic indicates that I would find metal particles of broken off burr.
I will add that I added some washing machine powder to the bath to aid cleaning and that may or may not have had an effect.
I'll report back after I empty the water some time today.

#84

General Tormek Questions / Re: Ultrasonic cleaner to remo...

Last post by tgbto - June 11, 2025, 08:31:03 AM

That sounds really promising. Judging from your BESS scores, you probably do a lot more after you first hone on the leather wheel, don't you ?

If that's not asking too much, do you think you could :
- Try this method after just SG grinding + leather wheel/PA 70 honing, and see how BESS scores are affected ?
- Tell us what you find in the bath with a knife that would have been cleaned in the US bath before being ground (and rinsed as well as possible under running water after honing) ? It would be interesting to get a good look at metal particles left inside the bath...

#85

General Tormek Questions / Re: Ultrasonic cleaner to remo...

Last post by Clickngofar - June 11, 2025, 02:04:28 AM

Okay, so my new BESS tester arrived this morning, and I put it to the test.
I resharpened two knives:
A Sheffield carving knife from my kitchen and I redid the fillet knife.
I was so eager to try my new BESS, I forgot to strop the carving knife entirely,but still got the following results:
BESS scores before: 80, and 84.
After a 10 min sonic bath: 54, and 45.

The filleter before, (but after stropping): 76.
After a 10 min sonic bath: 69.

No proof, but I reckon the sonic bath would also enhance edge retention.
I'm not a scientist, but guys, that has to be convincing evidence doesn't it?

So, anybody know of any scientist or metallurgist who could do some lab tests, and verify the theory.

I'm certainly adding the procedure to my work flow.

Incidentally, my cleaner is a commercial, 50 HZ, 40 KHZ, twin transducer model imported from China, and sold here locally.   


                 

#86

General Tormek Questions / Re: Ultrasonic cleaner to remo...

Last post by John Hancock Sr - June 10, 2025, 02:31:17 AM

I remember when I was first taught sharpening in high school. The teacher said that Stropping the chisel would successively bend the burr back and forth in order to weaken it and break it off. Seems that ultrasonic cleaning takes to to the next level!

#87

General Tormek Questions / Re: micro bevels, another opin...

Last post by John Hancock Sr - June 10, 2025, 01:39:14 AM

Not convinced. I suppose if you are sharpening for someone who regularly abuses knives then the micro bevel makes sense but if the user is careful and uses the knife fore its intended purpose then just make the angle what it is.

The micro bevel makes more sense for woodworking tools where you are hand re-sharpening on a stone to freshen the edge between full honing so that you can get straight back to work quickly. This depends on work flow.

#88

General Tormek Questions / Re: micro bevels, another opin...

Last post by John Hancock Sr - June 10, 2025, 01:29:17 AM

This would have effectively stopped me from wasting my time watching the video.

How on earth are they expected to ge clicks otherwise!

#89

General Tormek Questions / Re: Ultrasonic cleaner to remo...

Last post by Ken S - June 09, 2025, 02:25:39 AM

Well done, Max!

Ken

PS I don't know anything about ultrasonic cleaning. Is it possible that the cleaning might also remove any rust prevention properties from previous sharpening?
Especially with carbon knives, oiling the knife after cleaning might be prudent. (just a guess)

#90

General Tormek Questions / Re: Ultrasonic cleaner to remo...

Last post by Clickngofar - June 09, 2025, 01:48:01 AM

Guys, I've just done tests on two more knives.
Another fillet knife before ultrasonic did a 100 BESS, after 10 mins in 60 degree C sonic bath scored 75 BESS.
A Spyderco Smock gave exactly the same scores.

I have ordered another BESS tester - this time the A model with 1 gram resolution, and will get more accurate data when it arrives.
It looks to me that a sonic cleaner is indeed capable of lowering BESS scores by at least a few points anyway.
Any other sharpeners out there that own quality, ultra sonic cleaners, please do some experiments to verify if this claim has merit or not.