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Messages - tgbto

General Tormek Questions / Kudos
Today at 10:58:05 AM
I've not been on this forum for a long time, but I'm amazed at how good an example it is of a company fostering a community that results in an optimized use of its product as well as continuous improvement.

Some members such as Dutchman or the late Wootz, or more recently Perra, have been instrumental in paving the way for breakthroughs in sharpening efficiency and/or precision. I hope they get credited one way or another, like through patents for the MB-102 or the KS-123.

Kudos also to Tormek for listening and overcoming the classical initial corporate resistance to criticism, and eventually incorporating those ideas into further improvements of their tools. The blending of the MB-100 and FVB into the cost-efficient MB-102 is a brilliant example of how to use community feedback to keep their product line top-notch.

Quote from: Ken S on Today at 03:28:58 AMSome of the members are unsure if tomorrow's class will be part of Tormek's youtube channel. Some reassurance from you would be most appreciated.

The video is titled as "Part 24". The first 23 parts being part of the Tormek Youtube Channel, I think worried forum members can relax. Clicking on the video itself will also allay their fears as they realize they land on a familiar channel. ;)

To me there is a world between 150 BESS and 100 BESS, and another one (maybe two) between 100 BESS and 50 BESS. I have never gotten to 50 BESS, but the standard SG/PA-70-on-leather setup gives me consistently 90-110 BESS with 15 dps, and 85-100 BESS with 12.5 dps.

150 BESS happens in a few situations that I can think of :
- Knives made out of junk (soft) steel. They can't be sharpened at an acute angle and an obtuse angle yields poor results anyway.
- Partially honed knives. There is a burr or some plastified metal left, so they have to be honed some more.
- Medium quality steel finished with chromium oxide or diamond spray on felt wheel. I could never figure for the life of me why it would degrade BESS readings, but it does, probably because of poor technique. The readings get back to 100ish if I hone them again on the leather wheel. This phenomenon doesn't happen on 63+ HRC steel.

So I wouldn't loose courage if I were you, I would try to hone a bit more than you usually do, and remember Vadim's results that low initial BESS is not a significant factor in edge retention. Steel quality and edge angle are, though. I also find that SG edges tend to retain their cutting ability longer than SJ edges.

Right again, I forgot about the split.

Out of curiosity, have you checked with Tormek that they won't consider it a patent infringement on their SVM-45 and/.or KJ-45 ?

And if not, would it be less expensive overall to just go all the way and may an entire jig from scratch, free from compatibility constraints with the KJ ?

Quote from: cbwx34 on May 07, 2024, 02:26:40 PMPretty sure you're right, which is why (paraphrasing) "centering doesn't matter" is repeated.  Basically, just remaking an SVM jig from KJ parts.

Ooh damn, you're right. I don't know the price point for this but postage included it might well make it an expensive SVM-45.

Wouldn't that kind of adapter with the right fit do the trick for le$$ if one doesn't care about centering ? Saw off the end of the KJ before the middle stop, glue it inside the hole, use an embedded M8 nut as an adjustable stop ?

I'm not sure I got it right but from what I can see in the video, One jaw (the one with the threaded cylinder) is fixed relative to the shaft of the jig, while the other (the "shorter" one) moves. so it would seem that it negates the advantage of the KJ over the KVM, namely to have symmetrical clamping. But maybe I'm wrong.

I believe that an efficient way of solving this is one where the plastic part of the clamp is similar to the KJ, but threaded at the end (as the KVM one) and an adjustable handle is attached. Probably with an additional nut on the far side to solve the problem where the handle rotates while sharpening. As it is a fairly obvious combination of both the old and new design, I'm not sure this would be patentable though.

<edit> And for reference sake, a design for 3D-printing that was uploaded a few weeks ago : See on . It seems more or less to follow the same idea.</edit>
I will also concur with the advice to stick to the SG for knives : the SJ has a tendency to leave an edge with much less "tooth", so you might achieve nuclear fission for the first few femtometers of the stroke, but after a few contacts with the cutting board you might endup with more of that dreaded slipping feeling on softer vegetables. In my experience, the ungraded SG (or fine graded SG if you want a more refined edge) followed by a thorough honing on the leather wheel with PA-70 compound will work wonders.

Moreover, the claims by Tormek that a knife sharpened with the SJ won't require honing is simply untrue, at least on standard soft to mid-hardness knives. The SJ will leave a burr, that might not be visible even under a microscope, but there *will* be soft metal at the APEX that you will want to hone anyway.

I would also second the MB-102 as being the single most important accessory. That or the longer USB if you want to properly sharpen anything longer than 8".
General Tormek Questions / Re: Tool Marking
April 04, 2024, 08:18:32 AM
Quote from: RichColvin on April 03, 2024, 01:52:47 PMWhat laser do you use?

The IR one is the Atomstack R30 V2.

Quote from: Ken S on April 02, 2024, 06:34:03 PMI do have reservations with engraving lines on a chisel, if they are part of a quick setup scheme. Multiple sharpenings will shorten the chisel, thus making the lines inaccurate. Bevel angles also seem iffy to me. If obtained from the knife manufacturer, are they chosen for best cutting or minimum customer complaints. I think I would rather rely on the sharpener's experience.

The use for chisel I'm not sure about. It takes about 5 seconds to engrave a fine line on the back of my chisel so I'll see how it goes. I don't use them often, but the idea would be to always reference to the line that is closest to the handle.

For knives, I - most of the time - don't use manufacturer angles. I agree they're often chosen for minimum customer complaints with customers who have no idea how to maintain knives, and so the cutting experience is significantly degraded. Even for Shun knives where 16° seems a perfect choice, I slightly changed the angle to 15 dps so I can quickly resharpen a bulk of 15 dps knives without having to change projection distance. I mostly use 12.5, 15 and 18 dps. Knowing what angle to input to the calculator allows to get a burr in a couple of passes with minimal material removal. I use the knives library of my beloved TormekCalc spreadsheet when I'm not sure what angle to set, then engrave it when I'm done.
General Tormek Questions / Tool Marking
April 02, 2024, 11:55:47 AM
Hey everyone,

I thought I'd share with you my findinds pertaining to laser engraving. I started with a 5W output 455 nm, and I managed to get sub-par results by coating the blade beforehand (sharpie, mustard, painter's tape...).

I recently acquired a USD 400ish 2W 1064nm IR head, and the results are amazing. I can engrave knife blades with the sharpening angle or with their owner's name. I can also put a straight mark on a chisel right where I want. It can also mark plastics (preferably light or dark as the result is kind of greyish), so handles can be marked too.

It might be a nice addition to a premium sharpener's toolset. Mine is an open-frame one, so quite bulky, but there are also portable versions that will engrave up to 70x70 mm.


Perra, this is brilliant !
Quote from: Ken S on March 08, 2024, 03:41:28 PMAlong with the fascination of precise instruments, we should sharpen in temperature controlled rooms and wear gloves to eliminate transferring body heat to our tools.  :(


(Just kidding. . .)

Such as plunging our one-yard measuring rod in a bucket of ice and water as part of approximating the speed of light on Mount Wilson ? As well we should.
General Tormek Questions / Re: "Plasters"
March 08, 2024, 08:57:42 AM
2 (french) cents in the discussion : there's a french word called "pansement".

It is usually used as a synonym for what I used to call "band-aid" in the US, or "dressing" such as after surgery. But it is also a synonym for "plaster", for which there is another french word sharing the same latin origin : "emplâtre".


Quote from: RickKrung on March 07, 2024, 06:05:47 PMAs far as a tool for the angle setting process, I would recommend a mechanical dial caliper, rather than vernier. 


You're right, obviously. But there's something I always found fascinating with having sub-1/10th mm precision with such a basic tool.