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don't compare grinding on the Tormek stone with grinding on CBN. if we are talking about mainstream knives with a hardness of 50-58 HRC you can achieve good results with the Tormek stone. however, your time requirement of 5 minutes will not work if you need to, for example, create a new cutting edge or remove any breakouts. Here we are talking about a 10 times longer time span, depending on the knife. if you want to save time, then use a belt grinder. the point of the tormek machine is that you can always create reproducible cutting edges, which has nothing to do with freehand grinding. of course, you can get a sharp edge freehand with some practice, but this is a completely different approach. i have had many discussions with colleagues who said they could grind freehand and then we looked at the grind in the goniometer or under the microscope. you will never get such a perfect grind freehand as with a knife guided on the tormek. i know that many will now say that this is possible. but no one has been able to prove it to me. The comparison between diamond or CBN wheels and the tormek stone is like when you have to travel 100 miles. one by car and the other by bike. both will arrive. the car is just more expensive, but also more comfortable.

regards Hanns

you will not be happy with 2 CBN Wheels. It is no different than when you use sandpaper. everything builds on each other. For example, if you take a CBN 80 to do the rough work (which I recommend) you will already have a problem with the 2nd wheels. if you take the logically following CBN 160 your cutting edge will be too rough. If you take the CBN 400 one step higher, you will overuse this wheel. So ultimately, either all CBN in order or continue to torment you with the normal Tormekstone over the rounds. your claim to grind a knife in 2 minutes you will not achieve. even if I have a well-preserved knife which I draw to re-sharpen only over CBN 400 and 1000 comes afterwards still the deburring. i need for such a knife rather 5-7 minutes than 2 minutes.
my colleague Hans-Heiner has posted a great video on Facebook in the Tormek Users group showing the efficiency of the CBN wheels. After the cbn 80 has made the edge, all the following wheels are pulled over only once and at the end there is a perfect cutting edge which is then deburred on a rockhard felt. results are always in the range between 90-150 Bess.

greetings Hanns

u can find one here, also in shop is the Software witch fits on each device (IOS,Android,Windows)

https://schleifjunkies.de/en/produkt/vertical-front-base/

greetings Hanns

My shop was down for 3 Day`s due to Inventory.

here ist the Link to the Clamp:

https://schleifjunkies.de/en/produkt/clamp-closing-on-both-sides-centered-clamping-the-knife/

cheers
Hanns

Hi!

As a foreword, remember that BESS scores are relative, they depend on how you tension the wire.

I usually get 100-110 BESS after grinding at 15dps  with the ungraded SG-250 then honing on PA-77 , with the FVB set at 2 dps more than the grinding angle.

For folding knives, you probably are around 20dps with the factory bevels, and I find the same process to yield 140-150 BESS on 20 dps. All this on standard steels around 58-60 HRC.

Cheers,

Nick.

Sry to correct u Nick, results from Bess Tester has nothing to do with tension of the wire.
it belongs on how fast u pull down ur knife on the wire.
if u can watch the numbers going slowly upwards u will have almost same result  no matter witch tension is on the wire

cheers
Hanns

grind on the side off the stone with using MB-100

Hi,
Just a reminder of the DC-250, which many knife sharpening services use. Removing material from a knife-edge is normally a fast procedure since the amount of metal is very little on regular chef knives. Even with some chip-out, the 360 grid DC-250 makes it an easy task. The time it takes to exchange several stones/wheels is more time-consuming than using a maximum of two wheels.

I am also surprised why so many seem to try diamond or CBN before they learn to use the SG stone, with its 220-1000 capabilities. You can apply a higher pressure than on a CBN or Diamond wheel and quickly get it coarser with the SP-650, stone grader. This stone is my go-to any day.

My best tip still is to learn about how much pressure to apply. You can easily save minutes when this has become a part of the skill to sharpen.

Best,
Stig

Hi Stig,
From what you've said, I'm guessing that you've never grinded on a CBN stone. I can only say that everyone who switches from "normal" stone and grinds on CBN for the first time is thrilled and can not understand why it is suddenly so easy and fast. And all without any pressure. The removal of a 160 grit CBN compared to the 220 grit of the original stone`s is 5-6 times higher and that "without" exerting any pressure. Here, the grinding wheel does the work, not the pressure. I'm not saying that you can not grind well with a "normal" stone, on the contrary, I also initially always grinded on the normal stone until I finally landed on the CBN Wheels.
Believe me this is grinding on a completely different level than with a normal stone.

Best
Hanns

there is a completely different problem to be illuminated here. if you grind knives with clear chips and work on your stone for 20 minutes, then this is only recommended in an emergency. you can compare this figuratively when a carpenter grinds a planed tabletop, he doesn't start with a 600 grit. no he increases from coarse to fine. of course it would also work with 600 but he needs days and the sandpaper will be worn out afterwards. it is exactly the same with the grinding of knives. the right stone for each job saves costs and frustration in the medium term. an example: i use my CBN stones starting with the 80 grit stone. with this i have removed any chips and created my desired angle with just a few strokes. This is exactly what this stone is suited for. after that, and this is the good thing about it, i only pull over the 160 grit 2 more times. then once over 400 and once over 1000 and everything is done. the big advantage is that the coarse stone does the work and the finer stones are not burdened with hard work, which multiplies the service life. Now comes the big disadvantage..... it is cost-intensive to equip yourself in this way. however, once you have it, you will never give it up and ask yourself.....why haven't I done it this way for a long time?
I can usually finish a knife with 1-2 mm deep chips in a maximum of 5 minutes, including changing the stone.
cheers Hanns

I think your biggest source of error is your caliper.
with a caliper like the one shown in the picture, you will always have deviations. this starts with the fact that you are not sitting in the center of the toolbar. the range of the depth gauge is too small for this.
so you should, if you already make the effort, use a pure depth gauge. by the way, deviations of 0.8 mm in the angle are less than 0.5 degrees. you will not realize these. other error rates weigh much more heavily.

[I emphasize that no honing is used for the tested knives!]

Now a few links to Pavol Šandor youtube channel, where is shown how the edge looks after sharpening, the last used stone is Tyrolit F1200 (3 µm), which is equivalent grit to JIS 4000 = Tormek SJ-250. On older videos (with tests) is the last used stone Tyrolit F400 (17 µm), which is equivalent grit to JIS 1000. I emphasize that no honing is used for the tested knives!


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I have to correct you a little bit. 3 micron corresponds to approx. 6500-6800 grit. the japan stone from Tormek has approx. 4000 grit. thus 3 micron is clearly finer. However, even a 3 micron stone will always produce a burr. removing this is the great art. even knives that still have such a micro burr can be very sharp. however, you will only get the last bit of sharpness when this micro burr is also removed. and this is not possible without felt or leather wheel or stroping.
any stone, no matter how fine, will produce a burr.

cheers Hanns

Measurements are only nearly the same between KG and mine.
For T8 mine have fix numbers in it for all other machines or FWB u can use my universal software.

Cheers Hanns

a 2:30 video with english subtitles. Have fun

https://youtu.be/-YEu8BNJho0

you can buy several jigs and au8s each 0.5 mm from the fixed part of the clamp out, or you can as Rick makes it different (mostly for valves) underlay plates, in any case you will get so circa a good result. is a bit fiddly but practice makes perfect. or you can make it easy for yourself and get a jig that closes on both sides and reliably tension your knife always in the middle.
cheers Hanns

https://schleifjunkies.de/en/produkt/on-both-sides-closing-clamp-centered-clamping-of-the-knife/

much, doesn't always help much. i coat my felt wheel a maximum of 3-4 times a year. that's perfectly adequate. the thing with the BESS values i've already shown in a video.You can't rely on this at all, because far too many components play into the measurement. and as I said before, whether I cut myself with 50 or 60 Bess...... hurts both.

To all the rock hard felt people, how much pressure do you use? I have the "proper" RHF and use the 1 micron spray...but for some reason I don't have the kind of results I read about on this forum. I use a very light pressure, basically just the weight of the knife itself. I have  BESS tested and usually see a decrease in sharpness. For information I might go from cbn 400 to 1000 and then debur on the 250 mm leather wheel from Hanns. Usually 1 degree higher. At that point I'm happy with the results. BUT if I decide to get sharper on the RGF...it's worse??

hmmmm, i test a lot with this costelation... after the 1000 grit wheel go on the Felt with 1° more then u grind before, then use the leather with ur previous grindingangle.
4 strokes each side on the felt wheel with no pressure should work. same on the leatherwheel with a little pressure.

cheers Hanns