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Jan... thanks for the link.  I'm reading through the whole thread, so may take some time.  (Also some of your pictures seem to be missing, which, while not impossible, makes it a bit harder to follow).

Just out of curiosity... has anyone ever just marked the Universal Support to quickly set the distance?  It would seem that marking the support might be an alternative way to set it vs. the Kenjig.  (BTW, I don't at all think the Kenjig is a bad idea... just thinking of a way of setting multiple distances).  My idea would be to mark it, for example, with a letter indicator, that could then be matched to the chart similar to the "Grinding Angle Adjustment" booklet.  Then as the wheel wears, flip the page to show the new dimensions, and corresponding letter.  Initial setup might take a bit of time, but once done, it would last as long as the machine.  Just an idea.

Edit to add:  In thinking about the "Kenjig" a bit more... if I were to insure that the knife is set at approximately the same "projection length" (which the Kenjig requires anyway)... then I could use the marks on the wheel (in either direction) to set whatever angle I would want as I was doing before... correct?  I just need to include the projection length into it, (and no need for the actual jig to set the support distance).
(Don't let this detract from the "marking the Univ. Support" question though, still curious about that too).

I rechecked the installation of my BGM 100 and it appears to be spot on with the instructions in the manual. 

I have no idea, just a suggestion.  If you can, it might be worthwhile to post a picture or two of your setup... someone here might be able to spot if something isn't quite right.

There is some advantage to using a pointer and reference mark to quickly index the wheel to an exact position. I tried a couple of other ways, but I'm sure as most of you here already know, it doesn't take much change to affect the angle, so it has to be pretty "dialed in".

Not sure about measuring the angles as you're asking?  If you're thinking along the lines of how Steve Bottorff marks the wheel... no it won't measure in that way.  As has already been shown though... the angle part of this is a bit of a bust, since the "projection length" affects the result.

Still, I'll probably pursue this off the horizontal support... since the error isn't too significant, and for most knives it wouldn't matter.  Maybe get a better idea of how the projection length affects it.  Off the vertical support though, I'm thinking it might be too large to quickly adjust for.  It could be dealt with... but would probably be simpler at that point to just use the AngleMaster.

Thanks.

There goes my dream of selling CRPs (Chopstick Reference Pointers).... 

Haha. Please don't lose sleep on my account. 

I like to experiment... they don't all pan out.  (Bummer it was the first one in this forum)...

The wheel sometimes throws me a curve. 

Well dang... it doesn't work after all.  (Or, sorta works, by coincidence).   

After staring at the diagram in the "Grinding Angle Adjustment" booklet... and sliding the Universal Support in and out with a ruler laying across it, it's apparent (rather obvious in hindsight), that the angle changes.

So, I simply laid a ruler between the Support and wheel at a mark, and measured the angle change with a digital gauge.  Turns out, on the horizontal support it's not that significant.  I didn't measure, but 10 turns of the Micro Adjust is only a degree or so.  (And most of my testing was done this way).

But the same change on the vertical support is around a 5 deg. difference.  (Probably due to the Wheel/Support relationship I mentioned earlier).

So, guess if you sharpened off the horizontal support, and there wasn't a significant change in "projection length"... close enough to get away with?     Might be close enough to consider... it's a quick way to do it.

Thanks for the feedback... gave me a (needed) different perspective to look at it.

(Freehand looking better and better).

Well, it didn't work on the top (vertical) support.  I repeated the same test... mounting the knife in the jig everything lines up (20° line, AngleMaster matches).  But when I put it in the Small Knife Holder, and set the 20° angle using the mark on the stone... the actual measurement is around 23-24°.  (I repeated it several times... seems consistent).

Not sure why it all works on the horizontal support, and works with the knife mounted in the jig on the vertical support, but not in the SKH.  Hmmmm.

Thought I'd pass it along.  More testing. (Ideas welcome).   

You are correct, the USB sleeves are asymmetrical with respect to the shaft, but I do not see a problem here. I am wondering if your method can work correctly with arbitrary distance between the Adjustable stop and the knife edge (projection length).

Jan

Not sure if this answers your question...  but as a test of what I think you're asking, I took a knife and mounted it in the standard jig, and set a 20° bevel (checked with the AngleMaster).  Then marked the bevel with a Sharpie, and remounted it in the Small Knife Holder.  This time, set the 20° angle using the mark on the wheel, and then turned the wheel by hand, to see where the Sharpie was removed.  Looked to be pretty much spot on? (Picture attached).

Thanks for the question.

Thanks for the replies.

I think I solved the distance issue.  I had assumed that the positions for the horizontal and vertical Universal Support positions were essentially a "mirror image"... so thought the distances should be the same.

But in looking at it from the side this a.m., I realized that the horizontal bar is above the center of the stone, while the vertical bar is behind it (in relation to where you're sharpening.  So, the distance to reach 90° is greater on the horizontal side.

I agree that learning various methods/techniques are ideal... or at least trying them and see what works best for your particular situation.  All the various methods I've seen on here are great.

So here's my take on quickly setting the angle to sharpen a knife, using the standard knife jigs (or also the Small Knife Holder).  This is in beta... and comments/critiques greatly encouraged...  (I know I'm not perfect). 

First, as seen in the Picture 1 (right photo), I establish a mark on the inside of the wheel, where I can line it up with a chopstick attached to the handle, (use what I have lying around, haha).  This becomes a reference mark where I can quickly move the wheel into an exact position each time.  I tried a few other methods, but this was the most precise and fastest for me.

Second, I set up the wheel.  After positioning the wheel on the reference mark,  I used the the AngleMaster, set a blade at 15, 20, and 25 deg. and just mark the wheel at these locations, (left photo) (for the stone turning in both directions).  I also mark the side of the wheel, so as the wheel wears, I can remark the face (or just use the side) as needed.  (Sharpie lasts quite a while, even on the face).  (I was surprised I had to make a set of marks for each direction... more on that later).

Picture 1


Once this is done, as seen in Picture 2, I can now clamp a knife in the jig however I want, or use the Small Knife Holder... (the length doesn't matter).  Once clamped, I simply rotate the wheel to the reference mark, lay the clamped knife between the wheel and Universal Support, then slide the Universal Support in/out to line the edge up with the line at whatever angle I want to sharpen at.

Picture 2


Anyway, so far, so good.  I tried several knives, and after a little practice, was able to quickly hit the angle I want, and also "rehit" an angle, without issue.  Checking with the AngleMaster occasionally since then... it's shown to be pretty accurate.


But, here's the question I have.  There is a big difference in distance between the markings sharpening edge trailing vs. edge leading (stone turning away from or into the blade), as seen in this photo...

Picture 3


... I remarked the stone in a different area, and went to 30 deg., just to show a bit better.  (The side view just shows how I mark the side of the stone, making remarking the face as needed easier, or just use the side as the guide).

My question is why...  or am I doing something wrong?  I've tripled checked the settings, and also verified them by setting the Universal Support based on the chart in the "Grinding Angle Adjustment" booklet.  The distance between the Universal Support is the same both directions, the grinding angle is the same both directions, the distance (in testing) between the Adjustable Stop and the knife edge is the same... so why is there such a difference in the distance of the markings?  Probably something obvious I'm overlooking... but want to make sure I'm not doing something incorrect.  (This really surprised me, and if I'm doing something wrong... can't figure out why it works...).

Any other comments/suggestions appreciated.  I did this prior to finding the "Grinding Angle Adjustment" booklet, (and was pleased things matched up once I figured out 'S'...),  and am thinking there's probably a different way to set the wheel markings (math) that may be more accurate?  But so far this has worked, and I would think easily repeatable.  Obviously you can mark whatever angles you want, use a different reference, etc... so any ideas welcome.  (Or if this was done somewhere before, point me that way...).

Hope it helps, (and makes sense).

Ok.  Thanks.  I took a 3.8mm thick blade and tried to measure the angle difference on it (with the Angle Master and a digital gauge)... came in between 1.4-2 deg.  So guess 1 rotation would adjust for it.

Just to satisfy my curiosity (throwing a wheel in the mix has always thrown me off a bit)... the 1.5° change you mentioned earlier would also be affected by stone radius, correct?  (I know it's probably not much... just seeing if I got it right in my head).

Thanks again!

Ha... you may be right.

So, is there a recommended angle change (using the Adjustable Stop) based on blade width?

Most of the guided clamp systems have come up with a self centering clamp of some sort.  (In fact, I have one that may be adaptable to the Tormek, see picture).

Just to add a bit to my earlier post, if I had a knife that was, 3.5mm thick... where the Wootz solution is to use a jig he ground .5mm from... could I not shim the base of the blade .5mm (on the base level side) ... which would essentially tilt the blade down?  I know that part of this would depend on how wide the blade is (spine to edge), but for most knives, it should be close enough to negate the difference you're trying to correct for.  (May actually be a thinner shim, since the angle is really what is being compensated for).

May not be ideal in a commercial environment, where speed is a factor, but for the home user an alternative solution.

As an alternative to grinding part of the jig (Wootz's solution) for thicker knives... could you not also shim the blade so it is canted slightly in the jig?  (Basically alluded to in Jan's "incorrect knife mounting" statement).

Thanks for the additional info.

My mistake earlier of misreading the booklet... then trying to compensate by deducting half the support width, and going the wrong way, which made it worse... really threw things off.

It's all coming together now.