tormek T2 DWF 200

[bobl]

Hi Ken,
Quick question, the Tormek T2 looks perfect for my Knife sharpening business, only, when will it be available in the UK?
Also where can I get an English video or written  instructional on this great new product.
I will always have my T7 and will use it for many jobs, however, this new T2 would be an asset to the collection of the other 3 machines I have.
Hope you are well Ken and I look forward to your reply mate.
Cheers.

Bob The Knife Grinder

[bobl]

Kev. You can email me your directions for an english speaking version of the T2 if you have the info.
Cheers
Bob
The Knife Grinder

[bobl]

I apologize Ken, I called you ' Kev ' but that's my boss's name at work.
I got mixed up, sorry.
You both have my same respect though. ( Thats how I got mixed up )
I am tired though.
Very long week working for a company and having a small business as well.

Cheers
Bob
The Knife Grinder 

[Ken S]

Bob,

Nice to hear from you again. No worries about the name slip.

I have no inside knowledge about the T2. I have not heard anything about expanding its availability beyond a very limited restaurant specialty market in Sweden.

On the positive side, let me speculate some:  The T2 is built on the same chassis as the T4, including the same motor. The grinding wheel is diamond. I gather this is for grinding one brand of very hard Japanese knives. I have the impression that it has been designed to be successfully used by chefs and restaurant owners with limited sharpening experience.

I have not seen or used a T2, so I really don't know. I have the feeling that a skilled operator with a T4 or one of the larger Tormek models might not experience enough benefit to justify the cost (expensive) of a T2.

Like auto racing and the space program, I expect some of the benefits of the high tech T2 will filter into the workaday Tormeks. I look forward to that.

Hopefully Stig and Magnus will comment.

Ken

[SharpenADullWitt]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhA4uG9MUPU

Ken, you might like this video.
I personally don't think that the wheel being diamond, has to do with one brand of hard knife.  My view is below.
Similar chassis to the T4, but the support fixture is molded into it.  The knife jig, has a lot less movement to it, because the stone doesn't wear, and the blades only need the angle required by a knob.
It appears MUCH simpler then the T4, IMHO.  I would think this would be good for high end restaurants, apprentice type situations, and lower end "fast food" style restaurants, where kids are involved.

If this were sold in the USA, I would have recommended this, over the T-7 we have coming for the restaurant, for simplicity sake.

[Ken S]

Bob and SADW,

That's an informative youtube. It looks like someone with both a T2 and a T4 could remove the grinding wheel, jig and honing wheel from the T2 and use them on a T4. Or, with something like the TTS-100 to correct for changes in wheel diameter, use just the knife jig on the T4 or possubly the larger (250mm) Tormek models.

Converting to use in places like the UK, assuming the commercial power is the same 50Hz 220 volt input as in Sweden, should only involve changing the plug, either permanently or with a travel adaptor. Converting to North American power should involve switching the motor to the 60Hz 120 volt version.

Beyond the electrical considerations, there may be health code issues to be met in various countries.

You make a good point about the T2 being designed for an apprentice to use. There is no grinding wheel preparation or diameter change. There is almost no jig setup. There is no issue with water spillage. The learning curve seems minimal.

With the T2 having so many advantages, why would someone choose to use a traditional Tormek for knives? The T2 has two available grinding wheels, the standard 600 grit and a 325 grit. The 325 grit wheel is used for knives which require more extensive grinding. Going strictly by grit size, the 600 grit dry wheel should cut faster than an SG or SB wet wheel graded fully fine to 1000 grit. Cutting faster introduces the possibility of removing more metal than necessary in less skilled hands. There is the possibility of both grinding debris and honing debris being scattered, as in any dry grinding operation. I do not know if this is a problem, however, both have been mentioned on the forum, and should be considered.

I do not know the size range of the T2 knife jig. It does not look capable of handling large knives such as cleavers. This does not seem to be an insurmountable problem, however it might require a future second jig.

I have seen no evaluation of the bevel accuracy of the T2 jig compared with the SVM-45 and SVM-140. It does not clamp the knife. The jig may well be as accurate, or possibly more accurate. At this point, we, outside of Sweden, do not know.

I do know that the T2 costs more than the other Tormek models. Total cost comparison should exclude the need for a TT-50 Truing Tool, Anglemaster, stone grader and honing compound with the T2.

The abrasive rubber honing wheel leaves a less polished finish than the leather honing wheel with honing compound. This may be a toothier edge, better designed for slicing.This toothiness can also be achieved with a leather honing wheel charged with valve grinding compound or a ceramic honing steel.

The T2 seems very well designed and built within its intended use parameters. It should allow restaurant staff to efficiently keep knives quite sharp. At this point, I don't know how it compares with a traditional Tormek in skilled hands for sharpening knives. In its present state, it will not sharpen anything except its intended knives.

I hope we learn more.

Ken

[SharpenADullWitt]

As to why choose a different model, that is strictly a personal decision.
I agree that it won't work for larger items like Cleavers. (via Jig, but should freehand)  I would also like to know (and this would require some feedback from Sweden), about more specialized knives, as well as using the honing wheel on a serrated knife. (cimeters)
Health codes, can and do vary.
While toothy would be good for most uses, Steve might chime in, as my understanding is, for some uses in typically Asian cooking, they want the knives super polished, for fine work (slicing fish, etc).  One might prefer the SJ stone over the T-2 stone.
In my case, I think other uses will be found and used by one owner.  If the T-2 was out, and the above was known, I would have probably recommended it, and for the few, infrequent other uses, just visit me to use my Tormek.

Prior to this, there was an older model, that I understand was based on the full size Tormek.  It was a stainless square framed sister to the square framed 2000 model, and I think aimed for butchers.  (basically they require things to be cleanable by hosing down)  Besides "health" departments, they have the USDA that investigates them. (different agency, not all the same functions)

[bobl]

I will just have to wait and see.
Thanks for the replies guys
Bob

[Ken S]

Bob,

This has been a very busy time for Tormek. Several jigs have been redesigned. The gouge and square edge jigs being major redesigns. The T8 came into production. The website is under renovation.

For such a specialized model, a controlled limited test marketing in Sweden seems logical.Whether or not Tormek decides to expand the T2 coverage will probably be influenced by their impression of its reception in Sweden.

As you say, we will have to wait and see.

Ken

[bobl]

O.K. Ken
I understand.
I know I can order the T2 from Sweden and they are on the same   electrics us U.K. and I have sent them an email as to the price of the T2.
I only wish it could be a bigger model as in the T7. I think the new T2 is the same size as the T4.
I need to find out if the T2 will be able to accommodate the volume of knife grinding that I require.

personally I think it needs to have the same volume capability as the T7.
Even the knife jig with the 10  -   15   -   and    - 30    degree angle type jig joined to the machine would be good but on the T7 with a blackstone or even any stone.

The Jig alone would be at least 1 step ahead.

Here is hoping.

Cheers.
Bob.

[bobl]

Sorry, I got the angles wrong.
I think they are .

10
15
20
degree angles actually.
Bob
l

[Ken S]

Bob,

As I recall, the last time you posted, you had an SG-250 wheel ground down enough to need replacement. I believe you were ordering an SB-250 as a replacement. If so, would you please post your thoughts on using the two wheels?

I also recall that the need for resharpening of the carvery knives in your specialty area was increased due to the choice of material of the cutting boards. Because of this, do you have to begin with your grinding wheel graded coarse?

Are most of the knives you sharpen carbon steel or a harder alloy? Are they mostly all the same size?

While the specialized technology of the T2, especially the diamond wheel, might indeed improve your working efficiency, I believe it is important to continually strive to increase your efficiency by a continual focused effort to maximize your skill. This is not directed at you personally; most of us, myself certainly included, could benefit from continually learning from observation and honing our technique.

I have learned the most about knife sharpening from observing and questioning Steve and Stig of this forum. I have been most fortunate in being able to observe Steve both working and teaching, both in person and from careful multiple watching/studying his Sharpening School DVD. I have not yet had the opportunity to watch Stig sharpening in person or on video, however, I have learned a lot from him through questions and answers. Both Steve and Stig have evolved beyond basic Tormek technique through years of much focused sharpening. I always try to be self aware and grow in my own skill.

I was pleased to see Steve demonstrate how he prefers to have his regular and thin knife jigs protrude the same amount, measured from the universal support to the edge of the blade. I had been using identical protrusion as one of the cornerstones of my kenjig technique. It was encouraging to see that Steve also valued it.

I have come to believe that uniformity is the key to success with efficient use of the knife jigs. I won't rehash the whole kenjig technique. I will only state that you should be able to have your universal support distance and jig protrusion set for the day before you even see a knife. Both need never change, or change only in very unusual circumstances. Your setup time with the knife jigs should only be clamping and unclamping. In my opinion, both the black marker and Anglemaster should rarely be necessary. Neither should much, if any adjustment of the jig protrusion.

If you are using your knife jigs this efficiently, if the T2 jig is "a step ahead", it is a very small step.

If your grinding wheel is freshly trued and graded, either at the end of a workday or before you start to prepare for the next day, you will dramatically reduce your lost time due to gremlins. If you need to retrue during a workday, I find it more efficient to have the TT-50 attached and preset to a second universal support. By keeping your grinding wheel trued on a very regular basis, your wheel will last longer. By keeping your bevels very consistent in repeated sharpenings, both the knives and the grinding wheel will last longer. Both you and your customer will be pleased.

As in any business, you must assess it the cost of capital investment in a piece of machinery (T2) is fully recovered by an increase in revenue due to higher efficiency and if the T2 would be the most efficient use of that capital. In short, will spending the money for a T2 or any tool result in more or less money in your wallet?

Do keep working and keep us posted.

Ken

[Jan]

Sorry, I got the angles wrong.
I think they are .

10
15
20
degree angles actually.
Bob
l

The major described ticks of the T2 knife jig scale are 10°, 15° and 20°, but the full range of the scale is from 8° to 22°. All mentioned angles are bevel angles.

In my understanding the T2 knife jig will work on T7 and T4 also, provided the USB is set properly. There may be a minor issue with the degree pointer.

It would be interesting to know if the jig was designed for flat blades or whether some angle of the blade was assumed. 

Jan

[SharpenADullWitt]

If I may....
After talking to some other restaurant folk I know, most of whom have experience with 16 year olds, I would like to ask Tormek to consider making it worldwide available.  Why you ask.....

Hearing horror stories about the wide spread of kids cognitive functions.  I can say the lack of a water tray and stone, of the T-2, will keep a lot of stone debris from going down drains.  That was not an aspect I would have considered.

[Stickan]

Jan
"In my understanding the T2 knife jig will work on T7 and T4 also, provided the USB is set properly. There may be a minor issue with the degree pointer. "

No, the jig is not only fixed with the supportbar, it is also set in the arm attached in the top of the machine. So there is no way to use it on a regular Tormek.

Best,
Stig