tormek T2 DWF 200

[Jan]

Stig,

thank you for your clarification. It is a pity, I like the T2 knife jig concept. 

Jan

[Ken S]

I understand why the knife jig is permenently attached to the T2. The target market is experienced restaurant owners, chefs, and less than experienced other employees. They may or may not have any previous sharpening experience. A non detachable jig fits the "stone simple and indestructable" criteria of high school shop teachers.

Jan, the curious Tormek imp in me would like to test drive the jig both on a T2 and on a regular Tormek.

Ken

[Jan]

The same is true for me, Ken. 

My original idea was that on regular Tormek we will lose the bevel angle info because we do not have the special T2 top arm, but Stig statement indicates there is some principle reason why we can not use it on a regular Tormek.

Anyway I rejoice the simple and smart design.

Jan

[SharpenADullWitt]

It would be interesting to know if the jig was designed for flat blades or whether some angle of the blade was assumed. 

Jan

From the picture with above, and from the video, where they appear to slide the knife in the black housing, it would appear that some angle is assumed.  (maybe designed for an average)
With as thin as it is, personally, I think it looks more designed for stamped knives (typical restaurant knives).  As NSF and other sanitation groups, require plastic handles (no rivets or places for contamination) that you don't typically see on forged knives.
Those tend to be somewhat angled, during the grinding process.  I don't expect that most restaurant users would go as far as to figure out the angle of the knives and adjust for it.  (real world experience)


EDIT: forgot one word that changes the meaning of the sentence.  Brain faster then hands.

[Jan]

I agree with you, SADW. The T2 knife jig can accommodate knives with blade thickness up to 3.5 mm and 14 – 60 mm height.

I think the T2 knife jig may work well when we are sharpening knife belly or tip and want to keep a constant bevel width. Using a standard knife jig it is not always easy to achieve it.

Jan

[bobl]

I actually like this and would probably buy it. Especially if I knew what the UK price is.!!

[Ken S]

If someone was professionally regularlysharpening a lot of knives which were thicker, I think it would be cost effective to have a machinist modify the knife jig, as Wootz did.

Ken

[bobl]

Hi Ken,
I prefer the SB250
However, I just recently lost a very large contract with the Carveries to a national company since the carveries were taken over bye a major brewery and wanted them all under the same supplier. ( Gutted ) Virtually ruined me. I used the tormek for these guys as it was mainly carvers all the same setting and big volume, generally around 25 knives per restaurant. However, the business I have left is with small pubs and bistros etc, which do not warrant the set up time for the T7, a hand full of blades 3 or four per outlet.
I am currently using other machines from the van as opposed from setting up in the kitchen. Having problems with the right battery though, hence my other forum topic.
Still interested in more info on the T2 though.
Point of interest. I use C.B.N. on an interlocking wheel technique and one of the selling points of this system is that no water bath is required.
I look forward to views.
Cheers.
Bob

[bobl]

Ken,
Tell me what wootz did with the machinist, ref T2 jig? or put me in touch.
Cheers

[Ken S]

Bob,
I think this link will get you to Wootz' topic about modifying the knife jig:

http://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=2962.0

You might try clicking on Wootz' name and then on send a message just below his profile.

I am at a real disadvantage on advising you on the T2. I have never seen one. I will make a few guesses for you: Even though the T2 wheel is diamond instead of CBN, I think Tormek's decision to use it on the T2 is an indicator that it works well at slow (Tormek) speeds dry. For magnetic steels, the CBN wheel is the desired choice.

What I am getting to is that I think you could put together a reasonable facsimile of the T2 by combining a CBN wheel with a T7, T8, or T4. You would need to use the regular knife jigs, which should be no problem for an old Tormeker like you. (Added bonus, no need to compensate for wheel wear. Setup should be a breeze.)

Do contact Robin. Also, I suggest you contact support in .Sweden (support@tormek.se). Stig's crew may be able to help you directly or put you in touch with other Tormek users is a similar situation.

A good electric motor/generator/inventor technician would be worth getting to know. This might be a dealer.

I am very sorry to hear about your cancelled contract. This contract was pivotal in setting up your business. It's cancellation must be especially frustrating for you because it occurred through no fault of yours. I hope your perseverance will eventually be rewarded.

Keep posting. You are among friends.

Ken

[RobinW]

I think there's another business opportunity for Tormek:-

If the T2 jig does not work with the T7, then Tormek should make a similar jig for the T7.

Look at the amount of Forum postings concerning knife sharpening (excluding unusual types and cleavers etc which come into their own categories)

Despite my reservations about demonstration videos (explained below) if the T2 can sharpen knives as readily demonstrated by the above referenced video, then I would have no hesitation in buying a similar jig for my T7.

Why? Because I cannot sharpen knives well. I haven't spent a lot of time at it, I just manage to mangle (ruin) a few and haven't put in the hours required to overcome my, or the existing knife jig's, shortcomings. If I had a jig where I slot in the knife at the set angle, swipe in and out a couple of times and have a near perfect result, I would pay the money. QED.

With regard to demonstration videos, I bought my T7 after watching Jeff Farris' demonstration video for sharpening a chisel he had deliberately butchered. What a selling point! However, as will be seen elsewhere on this Forum, it took me a lot of practice to master the SE-76 and some of its quirks, but I would now consider myself pretty proficient at chisels and plane blades - which is the bulk of my requirement.

How many other demo videos have you watched, yet when it's your turn, there's always something not quite right and it takes ages to resolve?

[Ken S]

Robin,

Thanks for posting a very honest message. I thought I was the only one who had difficulty learning the knife jig. We really do need more in depth instructional video, and not just for brand new tormekers.

The real reason I developed the kenjig was to simplify knife sharpening. Speed was just a side benefit. I wanted to simplify knife sharpening by lowering the number of immediate skills to master. One must learn the several skills involved in both setting the Tormek and knife in the jig AND grinding the knife bevels.With the kenjig, the tormek and knife jig set up are essentially on auto pilot, allowing all available remaining brain cells to be focused in grinding.

I'm a pre multi-tasking Neanderthal who likes to built a house one correctly placed foundation block at a time. Things like study and the kenjig help me do that. I hope they also help other forum members.

The T2 knife jig looks like it could be modified for conventional Tormek's without too much effort. I agree, it would be nice if Tormek would made it available in a T4,7,8 version.If not, maybe we could go in the back door and put one together from replacement parts. "Fortune favors the brave."

Ken

ps Talking about demonstrations that work better at the show and not so well at home, I remember a comment Dave Hout made his dovetail routing class. He wondered if there was a particular micro adjustable jig in the shop. He opined that it was probably on top of the cabinet in the corner collecting dust. Sure enough, it was there, another victim of a pursuasive demo which didn't work so well at home.

[SharpenADullWitt]

One issue is when it comes to knife discussions, we need to decide what style of knife!
Ken is famous for saying practice with a 3/4" chisel.  My practice has been with a typical 8" chef's knife, as well as a 6" serrated utility knife.  Two different skill sets.
I have yet to do a roast slicer, boning knife, or a cleaver (haven't dulled them yet), or one of several other styles.  I have freehanded a pocket knife (just needed a touchup), where it needed just a hit then more honing.
I think an 8" chef's knife and Jeff Farris video is the way to start.  I don't think longer will do much other then cost you more.  It might teach the skill set of how to avoid hitting the other wheel.  I was tempted to buy another roast slicer to practice and learn with the longer knife jig on flexible knives, that would help me learn to avoid (or remove) the leather wheel.
Yet I think it might be a different skill set for learning the small knife jig, which my father has more practice with, with some carving stuff.
The T2 to me, seems like a quick and easy way to sharpen a knife for people like my restaurant friends.  As it took me less trys to learn the chef's knives, then the serrated knives.  But for those that time matters more, it takes me longer to setup the machine, then to do the actual sharpening.

[Ken S]

Interesting comments, SADW.

I have found a number of well done youtubes discussing the selection and use of kitchen knives recently. They are done by chefs. By a wide margin, the "go to" knife is the chef'knife. While some prefer a longer knife, eight inches seems a popular choice. My humble home kitchen experience would verify this. My go to knife is my eight inch chef's knife, which also happens to be my only chef's knife.

I am presently rewriting my 3/4" chisel topic. My original intent was to keep it short and concise. With over sixty replies, it became bloated. When I complete the rewrite, I will have the administrator float the present frozen topic and freeze the new one in its place. It should be like the welcome topics, with no replies attached. Comments will be welcome, just not directly in the topic.

For knife sharpeners, I would make the chef's knife the second learning tool. I put the chisel first because it is a much simpler edge to sharpen. It has only one bevel to sharpen. The bevel is straight. The bevel in only 3/4" long. The bevel is wider than a knife, therefore it is easily seen. The Anglemaster measures off the large, flat back of the chisel. The square edge holds the chisel very securely and is itself securely held by the universal support.

The chisel exercise is more about becoming familiar with the Tormek than sharpening the chisel itself.

Tormek has been continually redesigning and upgrading its machines, jigs and accessories. The square edge jig has been redesigned several times, each time being an improvement. The micro adjust universal support and TT-50 truing tools are substantial improvements. The present Anglemaster is head and shoulders above the former model. The list goes on.

The new SVM-45 is an improvement. In my opinion, I see further redesigning for the knife jigs. They should be self centering to compensate for different knife widths. I would also like to see the adjustable stops modified to be less tippy.

Even with the kenjig and substitute target, I still find knife sharpening more difficult than sharpening chisels.

Ken

[Jan]

Robin,

Thanks for posting a very honest message. I thought I was the only one who had difficulty learning the knife jig. We really do need more in depth instructional video, and not just for brand new tormekers.

The real reason I developed the kenjig was to simplify knife sharpening. Speed was just a side benefit. I wanted to simplify knife sharpening by lowering the number of immediate skills to master. One must learn the several skills involved in both setting the Tormek and knife in the jig AND grinding the knife bevels.With the kenjig, the tormek and knife jig set up are essentially on auto pilot, allowing all available remaining brain cells to be focused in grinding.

In each set of knives for sharpening I found at least one which is a challenge for me. Usually it is a knife whose sides are not parallel or a knife which width is too small (less than 15 mm).

In the attached picture you can see knives I have sharpened today. They are all brand knives, two Japanese, two German F.Dick and Swiss Victorinox. The challenging knife today was a Victorinox with smaller blade width even more tapering towards the edge (the second attachement).

In the second picture you can see my experimentation in replacing the knife jig knob by a longer bolt. It helped to improve the jig's grip but the blade centring was not easy.

Jan