Sharpening for a better burr

[Ken S]

What we need is a LOC marking which will not disappear when the motor is running. I tried punching a small hole into a piece of blank white paper and holding it beneath the LED light I keep by my Tormek. The paper was translucent enough to still light the grinding wheel. The hole allowed a bright circle in the middle of the wheel, our Point LOC. My set up is just a crude prototype, but, with refinement, it should solve the problem. It gives us an easily visible point instead of having to rely on our memories.

Ken

[Elden]

   That is a good idea, Ken!

   Jan, I have not set the Tormek up yet to actually see what you are describing in regard to the belly. I will take your word for it. One of these days, hopefully I will get around to doing it. I have been concentrating on keeping the garden going.

[Jan]

OK, Elden.

Please do your experiments and let us know about your findings.

Jan

[Jan]

Use of a laser pointer to locate the LOC (or Point of Contact) seems overkill to me, however, there may be some simple solutions. I think it is worth exploring.

Ken

Ken, it is a very good idea to use a laser pointer to locate the LOC. 

My drill press is equipped with laser cross and it works fine. Red cross hair laser with adjustable focusing would be perfect solution for our experiments.

Jan

[Ken S]

Good thought, Jan.

Ken

[Rob]

Chaps for your information, Maplins (or radio shack in the States) sell an inexpensive laser for about £15 which you can mount on a home made retort stand for all manner of useful functions. A friend in my turning club used one in a jig he made that maps the tip of the hollowing tool when deep inside a hollow form so you know where you're cutting. Might be useful in your suggested application

[Ken S]

Clever idea, Rob.

I must admit this is starting to sound like one of my ideas which is great in theory, but perhaps of limited value in the real world. The idea of marking the middle spot on the wheel was originally just to give us an idea of where to position the knife in the jig. We can certainly do that while the Tormek is not running. (For safety, we have to do that.)

Interesting thoughts, guys. keep up the good thinking.

Ken

[Rob]

I'm sat in hospital again with my youngest after surgery. Bored bored bored. There's only so much Ludo you can play before your mind collapses!

[Ken S]

Rob, our thoughts and best wishes are with your son, you, and your family. if you are really bored, you might try translating the forum into English. That would be appreciated by members like Elden and me who only speak the western hemisphere dialect.

Ken

[Jan]

Jan,

I will accept any improvement that I can get in precision and efficiency....and hope for more. I do believe this is worth exploring. Consistency in bevel angle is one of the strong pointsof the Tormek; let's maximize it.

Ken

I would like to share with you prototype of my tool entitled Knife Tip Setting Template. This template should allow easy knife mounting into SVM-45 knife jig, in a way that ensures the same bevel angle at the straight part of the blade and the blade tip. My approach is based Ken's Knife Setting Jig formerly known as KS-150. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bye-818SN85DdzB3bU9aUU81eTg/view?usp=sharing

So, the template is designed for 30 degree combined bevel angle, 250 mm grindstone diameter and Ken's magic length of 139 mm for the jig plus knife length. The distance from the support bar to the grindstone should be 80 mm.

The figure below shows the correct mounting position of the knife into knife jig SVM-45.

First, the knife jig is aligned between the two vertical lines and the jig stop is aligned with the horizontal line at the bottom of the template.

Second, the length of the knife jig plus knife is aligned with blue horizontal line at the top of the template.

Third, the knife tip is aligned with the circular arc shown in red.

Jan

[Ken S]

Very clever, Jan. I think it is fascinating how this idea started in the Netherlands with "Dutchman" (Ton's) mathematical tables; came across the Atlantic where it was simplified; and is returning back across the ocean for you to add another dimension of precision while preserving the simplicity. I believe this certainly shows the value of this forum.

Your template(s) remove the "hit or miss" element in placing the knives in the jigs. With the proper knife projection in the jig; the right distance between the universal support and the grinding wheel; and now the ideal position of the knife in the jig, precise bevels should be the order of the day and easily obtained.

We are making progress.

Ken

[Elden]

Great ideas Rob and Jan!

[SharpOp]

Brilliant thread!  Great ideas and sharp thinking, all of you.

Jan said: "Red cross hair laser with adjustable focusing would be perfect solution for our experiments."

It sure would.  And it sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

Investigating . . .

  ~Doug

P.S. A quick look at Google and Amazon suggests there are lots of possibilities with off-the-shelf stuff.  For example:

http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-GLL-Self-Leveling-Cross-Line-Laser/dp/B00NQUJ2AK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1438214081&sr=8-1&keywords=bosch+gll2


Bosch GLL 2 Self-Leveling Cross-Line Laser Level with Mount
by Bosch

Price:   $79.00 & FREE Shipping. Details

In Stock.

Ships from and sold by Amazon.com. Gift-wrap available.

Horizontal and vertical line modes - projects two lines independently or together for a wide array of level and/or alignment applications

One button operation makes it easy select between horizontal, vertical, and cross line modes or turn the tool on/off

Flexible mounting device conveniently clamps to multiple surfaces for quick and easy setup

Smart pendulum leveling system - self-levels, senses and indicates out-of level condition; switch slider to lock for transport

[Ken S]

For those of you who may be wondering about the direction of this topic, please allow me to offer my opinion.

There is a whole spectrum of members on this forum. At one end, we have people like me. I have, what Herman ably calls, "a sharpening hobby".  For me, a busy sharpening session might be four knives or a few chisels. The standard Tormek instruction videos, as done by Jeff Farris, are more than adequate for my needs. Jeff's well honed technique ably produces fine results when a few tools need to be sharpened.

On the other end of the spectrum we have members like Steve Bottorff. Steve has run a very busy farmer's market sharpening service for many years. Sharpening over a hundred knives during a Saturday morning, plus scissors and garden tools is typical for Steve's business. Steve uses the Tormek as a key component of his business, however, with that much sharpening to do in a short amount of time, the pedestrian Tormek technique will not handle the load in a profitable business manner.

In the middle we have members typified by our fairly new member, Bob. Bob has started a specialized knife sharpening business in his area dealing with restaruants. At this stage, a typical Saturday might involve sixteen knives, and Bob hopes to grow the business. Bob is at the stage where an efficient Tormek technique is profitable for his business.  The Bobs of the forum are one of the target groups for this discussion. For the beginning businesses like Bob's, the main benefit is efficiency. If a more efficient technique allows Bob to sharpen more knives on a Saturday, while still maintaining his very high standards, the business will be more profitable and have a better chance of growing.These techniques are not for cutting corners. They are for delivering a high standard of quality in a more efficient manner.

I don't know if the 90 RPM Tormek can ever compete with 3450 RPM machines purely on speed. However, the jigged water cooled grinding of the Tormek has other advantages no high speed grinder has. If we can cut down the redundant set up time to improve the speed of operation of the Tormek, the Tormek person will be able to function competitively in more professional areas. The Tormek by itself may never be able to match the speed of a hybrid technique with several machines at a farmer's market. I do believe a more efficient technique will make more business opportunities competitive for the Tormek only or principally Tormek sharpener. I believe discussion on this forum can promote that goal and that we will all benefit from it.

Ken

[SharpOp]

The Bobs of the forum are one of the target groups for this discussion. For the beginning businesses like Bob's, the main benefit is efficiency. If a more efficient technique allows Bob to sharpen more knives on a Saturday, while still maintaining his very high standards, the business will be more profitable and have a better chance of growing.These techniques are not for cutting corners. They are for delivering a high standard of quality in a more efficient manner.

It can hardly be said better than that.

And I think it's quite possible that the jigs under development in this discussion, and/or a laser line on that 90 rpm stone, might make a big difference to Bob, and to me, among many others.  As I've said, fiddly per-knife setup is a major issue for anyone considering using the Tormek to sharpen knives commercially.

  ~Doug