the learning curve.

[Herman Trivilino]

I am in the process of re-grinding the HK-50 (StainlessSteel) platform. I am attempting to more closely match the HK-50 profile to that of the grinding wheel and more polished as well. Very time consuming, for sure. I am hoping my end results justify the added effort. LOL

All you need to do is make the edge narrow, but not so narrow it bends when you use it.  The rest of the grinding is needed only so that it doesn't touch the grindstone when your bevel angle is small, say 10^o.

Set it at 15^o or even 20^o.  Get some practice using the jig on some old knives or a machete before you worry about refining it.  It may be that you'll not be happy with the jig and you'll find that the SVM works better for you.

[courierdog]

Ken S, I see there is someone else used to Bell System Practices, ha ha, You Will Wash Your Hands This Way and You Will Enjoy It, It Is Written!! 22 years with Telus (AGT) I was an Engineering Manager, before that I learned Broadcast Practices in CBC. I retired in 2001 and now my Hobby job is as a Courier, to afford my toys, etc. I appreciate your observations. I consider myself a very new person at Knife sharpening, even though I have attempted the skill for as long as I can remember. It is only since purchasing a few Japanese Kitchen Knives that I began to adopt the Water stones and worked to acquire some degree of proficiency with the flat stones and using the Edge Pro I am able to maintain a degree of consistent edge bevel. Tomatoes are very humbling, their skin is like very fine armour, as are mushrooms (these become like soft rubber if the knife is the least bit dull. My wife became ill and I have since January been doing all the cooking. I prepare what I call Kit Meals. I use various items and prepare meals like she had in the hospital, (Varied, small portions, with a good deal more taste than the bland hospital food) regardless of the food sharp knives are essential and learning how to sharpen these knives is key IMO to success in the kitchen. My other new hobby is amateur machinist, where I am learning to sharpen Lathe tool bits, HSS and Crobalt. I do not like the toxic metal dust as both of us have severe asthma so I quickly gravitated to the Tormek which I bought a few years back when it was the 2000 as opposed to the T7, I have upgraded the machine to the T7 Standard.
Any suggestion will be considered and attempted in my pursuit of knife sharpening perfection.
Thanks for your kind words.

[courierdog]

Herman, I am working at grinding the HK-50 to match the Grinding wheel. As you can imagine it is a time consuming process, which in and of itself is almost as precise as the blade edge bevel. It will take me another day with the little time I can dedicate to the process. The profile is looking good and I do not want to mess it up by attempting to go to fast. I grind a bit and reset the angle by moving the material forward a tiny amount. The leading edge is slowly reducing nicely. Keeping the grind even and consistent only comes at a slow steady pace. I also stop to grade the wheel using the coarse side frequently to ensure a consistent even removal of metal from the HK-50.
I will photograph the HK-50 process. How to post is another issue. I will begin to photograph the sharpening process once I can begin to see consistent results.

[courierdog]

After spending a good deal of time grinding the profile of the HK-50 to match the Grinding Wheel I am able to exert a much finer degree of control over the sharpening and polishing process of my knife blades. For my hand eye coordination the difference between the SVM-45, SVM-140 & the HK-50 is exponential. My subjective impression is I have a finer degree of control as the blade passes over the rotating stone. The HK-50 should IMO be seriously considered by Tormek as an optional Knife Jig. While I am sure it will not work for everyone, neither will the existing Tormek Knife Jigs work for everyone.
Each style of jig requires a different hand to eye coordination.

[courierdog]

I do have a very serious shaping question, Is there a coarse grit <100 Shaping Wheel available which could be used on the Tormek.
It would be nice to be able to able to shape any item, blade, tool bit, etc.
Rough shaping can be very time consuming as it removes a lot of metal from the base workpiece
Shaping with a water grinding wheel without the risk of airborne toxic metal dust particles is an improved health benefit
Shaping with a water grinding wheel without the risk of heat related micro fractures of the metal workpiece
Shaping with a water grinding wheel without the risk of burning or grinding ones fingers.

[Herman Trivilino]

Have you looked at the SB-250?

http://tormek.com/international/en/accessories/grindstones/sb-250-tormek-blackstone-silicon/

Dry grinding, either with a wheel or a belt, are the only alternatives known to me.

[courierdog]

Herman, I have the SG-250, SB-250 & SJ250 Tormek Stones.
I have an 8 inch bench grinder but it is too fast and removes metal creating a lot of heat, sufficient to create toxic metal dust, burned fingers and risks micro fractures in the work piece.
As I was grinding the profile on the HK-50 I had IMO way to much time invested in the process.
Once you have a Tormek, using anything else is just not the same from so many view points.
I tried using the Bench grinder to rough grind the HK-50 profile, it did not even rate as a poor joke.

[courierdog]

Herman, I really want to thank you for the HK-50 concept and your follow up support.
I ground my version down to almost a knife edge. This has allowed me to exert a finer degree of control over my Japanese Kitchen knives. On Sunday I was able to within a few strokes using the coarse graded SGC-250 correct the concave edge on my treasure so I could move onto the SJ-250 to polish the edge finish. The knife once more sings as it slices as it works, this blade truly does have a song like sound as it slices, I have never heard this on any other knife.
I can now move on to sharpening my other treasures with a firm confidence of success.
I would like to see Tormek consider a version of the HK-50.
I would also like to see Tormek offer a further option of a "Shaping" coarse grade stone for SHAPING ONLY, function for the express purpose of removing metal at a fast rate.

[Herman Trivilino]

Herman, I really want to thank you for the HK-50 concept and your follow up support.

You're welcome.  Glad for your success.  How do you prevent scratching the sides of knives?

I would also like to see Tormek offer a further option of a "Shaping" coarse grade stone for SHAPING ONLY, function for the express purpose of removing metal at a fast rate.

At Tormek's low speed maybe a coarser grade wouldn't be effective.  Maybe there's not a wet-grinder process that's any more effective at shaping than the Tormek with a SB.

[courierdog]

Herman, there is a constant bubble of water which  I think floods the top surface of the HK-50 so at this point I have not noticed at this point in time any scratching of the blade finish, however I will continue to monitor for indications of scratching.
I am so pleased with the current process and being able to quickly restore an edge to my knives.
Next, the SB-250 does not remove metal at a SHAPING rate, which is why I  have asked/suggested if there is a suitable stone which can be used exclusively for shaping on the Tormek.
It really is a new area of potential development for the Tormek

[Rob]

the Tormek isn't an appropriate choice for a lot of shaping as it doesn't remove enough metal.  For the odd chisel, its fine, just takes a long time.  If you need to remove a lot of metal frequently, for example wanting to experiment with different grinds on turning tools or recondition, boot sale old dinged chisels etc then an alternative approach is what I did.

[courierdog]

Rob, OK so what is your alternate method. I have an 8 inch bench grinder. The problem as I see it is the bench grinder creates a good deal of heat in the process. The existing Tormek stones do not permit fast removal of excess metal. The existing Tormek stones and processes are designed for Sharpening and not for the SHAPING  process.
I have a need for the shaping function prior to the more normal sharpening function.

[Rob]

you and I have travelled the same path my friend :-)

I first tried using the BGM-100 on a dry grinder so I could re-use my investment in Tormek jigs.  And to a point that works, certainly a lot faster than the Tormek.  But it definitely heats the steel up very fast and so for tools with fine tips like parting tools or skews, those tight angle tips are in serious danger of having the temper drawn, blueing the steel and destroying its ability to keep an edge.

In the end I went for a linisher style belt system but its inappropriate to discuss brand names on this forum.  Wouldn't be fair to Tormek who provide this forum to help Tormek users.  Don't ask me why belt driven sharpening is cooler than dry grindstone, but it is a magic bullet cure for fast steel removal.

Over the years, I've come to recognise the quality and flexibility of the Tormek for fine sharpening.  But it is at its most weak when asked to remove a lot of steel.

[courierdog]

Rob, I do appreciate I am not alone in my appraisal of the need for something different for SHAPING.
I continue to search for a 10 inch x 2 inch wheel with sufficient coarseness to perform the Shaping function. When I was grinding the profile of the HK-50 I was unable to use the bench grinder to grind the rough profile and had to resort to using the SG-250, grading it to obtain as coarse a grit as possible and taking a very long time to shape the required profile.
With the new EZE LOCK adding a fourth stone capable of fast shaping would seem to be a natural next step in the Tormek  system.

[Rob]

Its to do with the speed of the wheel and also the fact it would fling the water everywhere.  Its just a fundamental shift in design to accommodate fast grinding on a Tormek so I cant see them doing it myself.