Butcher Block Kitchen Countertop

[tooljunkie]

I see my link to Freud did not work.
Try again.


http://www.freud.ca/English/Pages/Blades/Industrial/Ripping/Ripping2.html

[tooljunkie]

That one worked.

[tooljunkie]

Has any one out there had any experience with glue line rip blades?
If so can you let us know what brand & how well they worked & is there a thickness barrier.

Dan

[ionut]

Hi Steve,

I am sorry for confusion I've created, in a previous post I used the term face and that created a different confusion so this time because you brought up the S2S term which we both know means surfaced two sides, I refered to the face as being the side, the edge is the edge, I don't know how to call it better. True means straight and 90 degrees. The side surfaces (faces) may be parallel as they come from the lumber supplier, because that's what a planner does, copies one side or face on the opposite side and that includes the defects as well, usually twists and bows. The milling process of the wood as I have learned it requires you, regardless how you do it, to true two adjacent surfaces at first and they will be used after that as reference surfaces to true the other ones so you end with perfectly straight consistent thick lumber that can be used in building furniture or cabinet making.
When it comes to machines the jointer will allow you to true one side and one edge and also make the edge at 90 degrees (or whatever angle you want) from the side then you rip the wood with whatever tools you have for example a table saw at the desired width and run the wood through the planer where the initial trued face is used as a reference (facing down in the planner) to bring the lumber at the desired thickness, you have now your piece of wood prepared for building whatever you want to build, and you can count on it as being straight and having a consistent width and thickness.
You can do this milling process with hand planes and that of course takes a bit more time. When I used my jointer for the 8' (close to 9' before cutting them at length) I didn't like it from two reasons, safety first and second I ended wasting wood as my roller stand could not replace an extended infeed table in order to provide proper reference for the wood, more precisely in a case of a bow for example the end of the wood was climbing over the stand as I was feeding it resulting in an cut following the bow at the opposite end where the cutting was actually happening. More than that after the end passed the stand it fell down on the infeed table changing again the cutting action. I am not much of a machine guy, so I simply did that with my handplanes.
When is about what planes to use it is an entire "barbology" that I should avoid. If the wood needs a lot of work on the face I start with a scrub plane, if the defects are mild I use a 5-1/2 and go across the wood in both diagonals, when I removed the defects I use a jointer plane that leaves me with the wood as I want it for each construction. Sometimes I replace the 5-1/2 with a jack plane. I leave the smoother or smoothing plane for the end after the piece has been assembled for cleanup and sometimes for the final step before the finishing, For the edge I start with the 5-1/2 or a Jack and end with my jointer plane.
About the finish take it more as a personal preference of mine, the water based varnishes are easier to spray, I prefer the oil based for durability.
If you come here let me know it would be nice to meet and play with some wood if you like, about the lunch? you'll pay mine and I'll pay yours I am not trying to help you if I can for any material reasons.

Ionut

[Steve Brown]

Ionut,
I'm just going to go for it. I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks for the feedback. I like talking to someone who has been doing this for over a hundred years.
What kind of planes do you like? Japanese look like fun but a little fussy in the adjustment. Lie-Nielsen cost $510 for the jointing plane with the corrugated sole. I'd have to get a job at Wal Mart to afford that kind tool. Whata ya think?
Steve

[ionut]

I like the Veritas ones, they are a great quality/price choice and sometimes they come with real ingenious improvements to the old models. The Japanese ones are great but the ones made by some great masters, really good ones may get as expensive as the premium metal ones, the more affordable ones need work before use, especially on the sole. I live in a pretty wet area I also have to "listen" at what the wood says in case of atmospheric changes so I kind of prefer the metal ones, even though they have their own rusting issues in the same conditions, but with a bit of oiled attention that problem disappears. You can make your own wooden ones if you want, it is really not so hard, David Fink's "Making and Matsering Wood Planes" is a great source for that, the Hock blades are really good quality and if you pay the required attention to the tricks presented in the book you cane really end in owning a plane that can compete with any premium plane. I have made the one presented in the book and it really ended to be a great and reliable wood plane, I use it more for smoothing. And on the top of everything it is not only cheaper but it also gives you the satisfaction of being then one who built it.

Ionut

[Ken S]

"What kind of planes do you like? Japanese look like fun but a little fussy in the adjustment. Lie-Nielsen cost $510 for the jointing plane with the corrugated sole. I'd have to get a job at Wal Mart to afford that kind tool. Whata ya think?
Steve"

Steve,

For $510 planes, I would suggest you send your resumé to Goldman Sachs instead of Wal-Mart.

My three main bench planes are 1909 vintage Bedrocks.  They are a lucky find from when I was young and had no idea of what they are.  I am the second owner.

In modern planes, being a traditionalist, I generally favor the Lie-Nielsens.  However, Lee Valley makes an intriguing looking bevel up jointer with a custom designed fence for it. The price for the plane is $275.  Fence is $38.  It is available with different blades.  It looks like it might be just the ticket for your butcher block job.

Ken

ps One nice thing about this kind of a job is that you get to enjoy it every day.  That's a lot of pleasure in the results of your labor.

[Steve Brown]

Does it make sense to buy the Veritas bevel up jointer by itself without the jack and smoother? I mean, if I don't start on this top with the jack, go on to the jointer and then the smoother, is it going to be like having a car with one gear? Can I actually make up for the lack of the full contingent of planes? Is it like starting sanding with only 220, when in reality you really need to start with 80 and 120 and so on working up the ladder with grits. I could write a book on what I don't know. I'm really glad you guys are out there. Thanks for all your help.
Steve

[ionut]

Hey Steve, I would write an entire encyclopaedia about things I don't know, luckily nobody asks me to do it.
Don't rush with the planes, a good car with one gear would be the Jack plane, and if you get a couple of blades for different bevels that car would allow you to finish counter top race. The jack is long enough to do a pretty good jointing job, it is really good to flatten and true the stock, you can also do scrubbing jobs with it , and if your top has no isolated areas that need very local attention a 38-50 degrees angle blade will make a good job smoothing. It is not that great to act as a block plane but is indispensable for planning the ends of the boards on a shooting board to mention few of the things you can do with it. If you get the low angle plane changing the blades and adjusting will be  very easy. You will be able to make the whole top with it. You will add the other ones in time as you find you really need them, that will give you a chance to see how you like it and maybe you will start to make one yourself for a specific job. Really take your time with them, woodworking doesn't mean you have to have all the tools that have been invented over hundreds of years.

Ionut

[Ken S]

Steve,

Do you presently have any planes? 

If not, you might consider building a kit as needed.

If you already do have some planes, the question becomes what would be a strategic upgrade in the areas most beneficial.

In my case, although the Lie-Nielsens and Veritas planes look tempting, most would be nicer duplicates (or near duplicates functionally) of what I already have.

Be sure to read the recent article in Fine Woodworking by Chris Becksvoort about the bevel up jack plane.

Ken

[Steve Brown]

So yeah, I have a Stanley block plane. That's it. I'm just now getting into planes and sharpening, for real. I have some old Arkansas oil stones from WW I but I'm going to get the Veritas jack plane on the advice of Ionut and Ken S. My question now is not so much about truing the face and edge as it is about keeping all pieces of my top the same size, namely 1 3/4 X 1 3/4 finished. I start with 2 X 2 and plane to 1 3/4 but since each board is different in terms of bow, etc. when I true up, each board is different by as much as 1/2". How to maintain consistancy?
Steve

[Steve Brown]

Oh yeah, BTW, A2 or O1 on that Veritas plane iron?

[tooljunkie]

Hi Steve

There was some very good info on this topic I read here I will have a look for it
It may have been Ionut with very good info on A2 or O1

[tooljunkie]

I am not able to find the post here but here is a link to some good information on A2 vs O1 Tool Steel.

http://thewoodwhisperer.com/a2-vs-o1-tool-steel/

Hope this helps

Dan

[Steve Brown]

Thanks Dan,
Sounds like a toss up. My gut says to go with O1.
Steve