Butcher Block Kitchen Countertop

[Steve Brown]

Thanks Ionut, that does help a lot. What about the issue of the steel? Is it fair to say that the edge on a 15 year old $40 Stanley block plane iron will never do as good a job as a Lie-Nielsen, Hock, Veritas or a Japanese iron? I have a feeling that the better the iron with a tighter molelecular steel grain pattern will give a better edge as well as stay sharper longer even if it's 01 steel. What's your take?
Steve

[ionut]

Hi Steve,

I couldn't say, 15 years is not that old and I think Stanley was already far behind the tools quality they made many years ago, but I can't really tell, I have seen old tools that are working so well it is hard for the today's premiums to be as good, but I also seen the opposite most of the time. The performance of the blade and the sharpness of the blade is in strict correlation with the type of steel more with the chemical composition, the way it has been forged and the strict working temperatures. The temperatures are critical in obtaining the best crystalline steel composition and when you add on top different other ferrous or non ferrous components added to create different alloys for different purposes, it makes the whole thing much more complicated   I am not a metallurgist but this is what I have learned.
I can tell you one thing, you can't go wrong with any of the ones you listed. If it is a Japanese one make sure is not made by a large commercial company, the real good quality ones are made by small shops or masters. If you suspect the steel as being the problem of the block plane, the cause of that plane is not lost, there are replacement options from Veritas and Hock and maybe Lie-Nielsen too, with good quality blades.

Ionut

[Steve Brown]

Hi Ionut,
Well,I've got a decision to make. My gut tells me to try a Japanese wooden plane. Yesterday I got the Japan Woodworker catalog in the mail and they have some interesting wood planes I'd like to try. The top of the line ones are over $500. Too rich for me. They do have some in the $175 range I might consider. Ron Hock makes a kit for about $90 that also looks intererting. I know you aren't crazy about wooden planes, but do you think a $90 wood Hock plane kit would br comparable to a $175 Japanese wooden plane, or is that just an impossible question to answer? Do you think Ron Hock's steel is as good as he says it is? Thanks,
Steve

[ionut]

Hi Steve,

There are a couple of reasons why I am not crazy about the wooden planes, first the wood moves with environment changes and where I live with all this moisture in the air that may become a problem, which of course it can be solve by periodically maintaining them. This may not necessarily be an issue in drier climates. A second reason which applies mostly to the Japanese ones is the size/weight of them, the Japanese ones that look like the ones sold by Japanese woodworker are not really made for hard woods even though the blades and the bed angles are, from what I know the Japanese woodworkers were more oriented in working softer woods so that particular shape for harder woods may be a bit harder to use. A wooden plane will never be as heavy as a metal one and the extra weight aids a lot when planning, you do not have to apply lots of downwards pressure which leads to a more precise work and control. An European style wooden plane may be easier to use because of the handles and it will have more weight.
It may sound like cutting your wings off but is not really like that, take it as my opinion which actually is and not necessarily like something you need to do. You have already the required range of planes, that will allow you to do all kinds of work, I am not referring here to the speciality planes which are a totally different chapter. Adjusting the wooden planes is a bit tricky but easy to learn and not a problem to master in pretty short time. They all need maintenance over time, more than the metal ones if the amount of care is the same. The Japanese ones are very good but I find them uncomfortable and light to use in heavy work. The kit Hock makes looks OK, I never tried one, but for that money I would buy his blade, the "Making & Mastering of Wood Planes" by David Finck book and a good piece of hard maple or any suitable hardwood with uniform grain and learn to make one myself. Which is actually what I have done and I ended with a great plane. It is a good exercise, and more than that the book contains lots of great general woodworking information that could help with other projects, and on the top of all, when you will have the need for a specific plane for a very specific job, you will not have to search the internet for days and squeeze your brain for an answer, you just get at you workbench and make one because you already have all the information and know how to do it. That was my approach about the wooden planes.
The Hock blades are good, I have an older one which was not flat as it should be, I had to work it but it wasn't bad, Today he may put more effort in flattening them closer to what they should be. It gets a great edge when sharpened and the cut left on the wood is one of the finest ones.

Ionut

[ionut]

Steve, I included at the link below a picture of the one I've made so maybe you'll get inspired.

http://cid-bc168f3568163031.photos.live.com/self.aspx/Wooden%20plane/^_DSC0978.jpg

Ionut

[Steve Brown]

Hi Ionut,
Let me tell you something, I am way more than inspired, the quality of your work is overwhelming. I'm going to go out today and buy Finck's book. I do hear what you're saying being possibly a little too light, as I told you, I recently bought the Veritas jointing plane which definately has some heft to it. But the look of that plane you built makes me just want to have one, even if it is a little light for some work. I'm telling you, if you lived a little closer, I be camping on your door step for some lessons. Seriously, great work. A couple questions, what steel did you use on the plane, how long is it, and what's the wood. Also, the angled dovetails on that display...fantastic. You are truly an artist, my friend! Thanks as always for all your feedback and the great images. Did you do the photographic work? If so, do you have any close up work of the plane and the dovetails?
Steve

[Ken S]

Steve,

I just read Chris Schwarz's blog on the Popular Woodworking site.  Just for possible future reference, there is a guy making replacement handles for the Lee Valley bevel up planes.  some people like the feel of the LV plane handles, some don't.  Hopefully you will.  LV certainly makes some fine and innovative planes.  I hope you enjoy yours.  Keep us posted.

Ken

[ionut]

Thank you  Steve. I believe though what you said is a bit too much.
I am not sure if I am in position to give lessons but if I would be closer you would be more than welcome to come and see how I do things when scratching the woodworking spot on my brain.
The blade is a Hock blade 1" ½ or 1" ¾, I don't remember exactly and the plane I think is about 10 11 inch long, is  the one presented as an example in that book. The final shaping was my decision though. And if I would build another one I may probably leave something in the front of the plane to help with a better grip.
The dovetails are normal dovetails not angled ones, the wide lenses I've used made them look like angled. I will have to take some other pictures for more close-up but if I do I believe I will send them privately as I don't believe this servers much the sharpening part of the things.

Thanks,
Ionut

[Steve Brown]

Hi Ken,
I read Chris Schwatz's blod and reviewed his images. Those totes look good, but I haven't used the jointer plane hardly at all yet, so I'm not really sure if I would like to have one of those or not. Also, it sounded to me like they may not be commercially available just yet. Do you know? At any rate, thanks for thinking about me and I'll let you know how the bevel up planes work out. I'm optimistic at this point. BTW, based on your advice, I have applied to Red Rocks Community College which is about an hour from me here in Fort Collins. They offer a Certificate Program in Fine Woodworking as well as a Luthier Program. That would be Fall 2011 if I get accepted. I'll let you know. Thanks again,
Steve

[Steve Brown]

Hi Ionut,
You still have my email I think, I'd be happy to have you send me all the images you care to send. Do you have a Nikon D700? I have the D90. I'm not sure how they compare. Good to know that you're using Hock steel. I sent for that book, so as soon as I get it, I'm going to make a plane. What wood did you use? Was it hard to make? Not that I'm rushing right out there, but where in Canada do you live, are you in or near BC? I sort of surmised that based on your humidity comments. I don't really think that Jeff wants to restrict the site to just sharpening. I think that he is interested in sharpening for sure, but I believe he would like to see issues of general woodworking as well. I showed my wife the picture of your plane, she said you should sell one to me. Maybe I'll revisit that question after I try to make one for myself. Be well, love your work. Keep it up.
Steve

[ionut]

Hi Steve,

Sorry I don't have any pictures as I said before I don't spend the time to take many pictures of my work, but I will take few for you and send them to you. The camera I use is a D700 and it is a full frame one which was the reason why I got it.
The wood I've used was a nice piece of hard maple, but you can use any hard wood with grain as uniform, as possible, white and red oak , beech, or other would be OK to use. I believe David in his book makes a number of suggestions about what wood to use. It wasn't hard to build, there are few tricky operations very well explained in his book and anybody can build a plane, as you could see in the picture I made a mistake when laid out the hole for the  wedge support but luckily it didn't  overlap with the place where I should have placed the hole in the first place. So I don't think you should worry about and if you don't find a suitable thickness in the wood you decide to make it you can also laminate two piece together. It is important though for the wood to be dry and to get acclimatized with your shop for a couple of weeks.
Yes I live in Maple Ridge very close to Vancouver, that is why it is so watery here.
I could make you one but it may take me a while as I am pretty busy lately, but I think you would lose the best part of it. The satisfaction of using the plane you have made which will count more than owning the most precise and most expensive and fancy premium plane that has been ever made, which BTW, you may find is not performing for the money you paid. And on the second hand it is a pleasure to make it.

All the best,
Ionut

[Steve Brown]

Hi Ionut,
Afetr all this, I just have to tell you. I still have not been able to get anything as sharp as I would like with the T7. I seem to have been able to keep the blade I'm working with reasonably square, but just today, I put a chisel in, took it from the 220 through the 1000. All that was OK, but then I changed stones to the 4000 Japanese waterstone. I marked the bevel to keep it true to the 220/1000 stone as we previously discussed and even though I ground square on the 220/1000 stone, the chisel didn't square up correctly on the 4000 stone, even though it was definately square in the jig. Somehow, I thought it was all going to be automatic, but apparently there is going to be a bigger learning curve than I anticipated. I think once I get the hang of it, all will be fine. But it takes some work in the beginning. I'd like to go to a class. I'm going to see if there is someone in this area who can walk me through it one time.
Anyway, I will build my own plane, as soon as I get the book which should be by the end of this week. I have to get some advice on how to upload an image when I get it done.
Meanwhile, be cool and stay dry.
Steve

[ionut]

Hi Steve,

I realized that in my other square issue posts I missed a step I take that I believe in your case may be important. This is because most of the complains were mostly related to one stone use and, I don't have to change stones often having two machines. But because you have to change the stones you may want to pay attention to the following aspect.
Regardless how well the stones are made they shaft hole in the center may not be perfectly square to the stone so if that's the case every time when the stone is mounted if is not mounted in the original position when the stone was trued you may end with a non flat rotation plane of the grinding surface.
To avoid this possible issue I would suggest to do this. Take a sharp tool, an awl a sharp nail or anything that is sharp enough to mark or score the end of the shaft (where the stone tightening nut is mounted) with a line along the diameter of the shaft. Make sure you don't affect the threads. Mark with a black or any coloured sharpie one extremity of the of that line. You can use any marking method that is permanent enough. Then take the stone and with the same sharpie draw a radial line from the center for about 1 ". When you mount the stone on the shaft make sure you align both marks and tighten by hand the nut as much as you can making sure the alignment of the marks is still kept. Completely tighten the nut by twisting the wheels in opposite direction or using the hammer if you have the old nut. I usually tighten the old nut but twisting the wheels in the opposite direction as well. The stone should not slide from the original position when the nut is completely tighten, but if it does don't worry it will be just a bit. If you never applied this step you will have to true the stone again to make sure it is flat in correlation with the actual position. Don't worry if you have to true it again, you only have to take thin 'slices' I never go beyond 1/12th of the US adjusting wheel even if I have to make multiple passes. You can do the same.
Repeat the same process for the 4000 stone and every time when you mount a any stone make sure to align it in the same way. This should eliminate any concentricity issue with the stones.
Another aspect that you may want to pay attention to is the adjusting wheel of the US. The thread is not the most precise thread ever made and that may lead to slight changes in the US orientation. When you decided the exact position of the adjusting wheel, before tightening the knobs, get the jig off the US and backup the adjusting wheel half of a turn (lower the support), then while holding finger pressure exactly over the threaded post and lift the US by rotating the adjusting wheel back to it's original position. Then while still pressing on the threaded post tighten the knobs. This should minimize the inaccuracies generated by the US assembly.
If you measured the offset between the grinding and honing stones in adjusting wheel turns or fractions of turns I would also suggest you to approximate the adjusting wheel at the same number even if the honing would happen at a bit steeper angle, that may also help. I mean if the wheel position was with lets say number 3 at 6 o'clock and if your offset would be 8/6 of the wheel in counter clockwise which means the number 3 mark would be somewhere around 9 o'clock, turn the wheel only 6/6 (one full turn) so the wheel is in the same position as with the grinding wheel. This ensured that if the adjusting wheel is wobbly in the thread, it will always rest on the same plane on the base.
If these things are not helping you may probably got to some mechanical limits of the machine that cannot be overcome. I sometimes if I don't pay attention end with a slightly not square edge and if the tiool is not used in critical cutting I ignore it. Planes always allow you do skew the blades a bit to compensation for non square situations. I pay most attention when the tool I sharpen is used to do precise chopping. If that is not square enough it may push in a different direction during chopping.
Hope this helps.

Ionut

[ionut]

As far as how sharp the tool is, if it has a proper flat back, stop sharpening after the 4000 stone and test the edge on end grain, it has to cut smoothly and leave a waxy kind of look on the wood without tearing off. You should be able to shave very thin slices of wood without forcing the tool. If that happens then you probably mess the edge while using the leather honing wheel. When you use the leather honing wheel after 4000 stone make sure you don't round the edge., the edge has to barely touch the leather, it is easy to see that if the light comes from  the side over the tool which will create a shadow on the wheel. The goal is to reduce that shadow to nothing and to not go further than that. The same applies to the back on the tool as well. Until you get a feel about using the leather wheel i suggest you to not apply much pressure and be in more control even if the process will take a bit longer at first. In time you will get better control so you can apply more pressure. When you use the leather wheel coming from a 4000 stone you don't have to use much pressure anyways, the goal is to clean the edge of any microscopic burrs left by the previous step.

Ionut

[Steve Brown]

Hi Ionut,
Thanks for the pics. I especially like the dovetail work. Nice color contrast and nice tight jointery. Hey, since you're sending images, is it possible to send me a sketch of the layout you were describing in that recent post? I'm not sure what exactly I'm trying to achieve. It sounds like some method of aligning the 4000 stone in the exact same position each and every time I use that stone to sharpen, but it also sounds like you want me to align the 4000 stone with the 220/1000 stone so that both stones go in the exact same position each time I sharpen. I work a lot better with show and tell, it's a little confusing to read about it. That is in English, isn't it? Just kidding. If it's too complicated, don't worry about it. But I would like to get the system working properly, however. I bought the Veritas sharpening jig so I can get at least one chisel up to 100% even if I have to do it by hand to get it there, at least the first time. Also, I didn't realize that I should end up with the strop wheel on the back AND the bevel. Live and learn. Do you put the goop on the wheel every time you use it, or just when it seems to be getting dry? Thanks for all your help. BTW, I applied to Red Rocks Community College in Denver for a Certificate in Fine Woodworking. I just got accepted for the Fall Program. Red Rocks has the second largest woodworking program in the country.
Be good...
Steve