Stone Grader SP-650

[Steve Brown]

So Neal,
If I understand you, you suggest using the Tormek Japanese 4000 grit waterstone and finishing up with the Tormek leather strop with Green Chromiun Oxide. Stropping only the back of the blade and skipping the 8000 bench stone altogether. Is there a step between the 4000 and the GCO strop?
Steve

[nhblacksmith]

I just use the standard 220/1,000 grit stone starting with the course (220) if I haven't sharpened a tool in a while and then regrading to fine (1,000)to finish up the grind. I go from that right to the
leather hone and Chromium Oxide with no steps in between.  It probably takes little longer than using an intermediate stone but given the changeover time I doubt there is a lot of difference and the end result is the same.  It is not necessary to sharpen every time and unless I damage an edge, I just hone with Chromium oxide from time to time-it's just like grinding with a very fine stone.  

Neal

[Steve Brown]

Neal,
Is there anything that needs to happen with the white honing compound that's on the leather strop, does that need to be cleaned off prior to using the Green Chromium Oxide? Also, you don't see any benefit to purchasing and using the 4000 grit Tormek Japanese waterstone? Do you know what the micron rating is on that white stropping compound thst comes with the machine?
Steve

[nhblacksmith]

Tormek lists its paste as 3 microns so it is a bit courser than the green stick but they both give a high polish.  The Tormek paste is a little faster due to the slightly larger grit.  I have used them interchangeably and could never really tell the difference in the finished edge.  8000 grit or 30,000 grit, either way it takes more microscope than I have to see the difference.  I have never cleaned between the two except maybe a quick wipe with a dry cloth to get rid of the little black junk that clutters up the wheel after use.

Neal

[Steve Brown]

Very good, Neal. Thanks.
Steve

[ionut]

Hi Steve,

I have replaced almost entirely bench stones sharpening with the Tormek. I mostly sharpen woodworking hand tools few knives and planer/jointer blades and yes the Tormek Japanese stone allowed me to do that. Let me clarify, stropping can always be done to further refine the edge, I personally consider it unpractical considering the extra time I have to spend for an extra sharpness. For me I found a good balance between the edge quality and the time invested to get to it which is short enough to enjoy cutting the wood again. So to be clear, the microbever is not necessary in the context of using the Tormek system. When using the bench stones it is still necessary for the reasons I posted earlier.
I will try to take a picture about how to prepare the TT-50 the truing tool in order to avoid the vibrations.
I don't know the Japanese maker for the 8000 bench stone, it doesn't have anything engraved on the stone or support, but the stone is working great. The Naniwa 8000 or 10000 are great stones they are pretty hard and give a great polish.I personally like japanese stones more than others simply because I they never stop cutting, but I heard from other sources Norton are good as well, but I can;t make a comparison as I don't own any. I have used the Japanese ones intensively for years before Tormek and I still have/use them for flattening and they are really great.
Of course it doesn't hurt, you can go through all intermediate stages if you want. You will still spend the same amount of time for the overall sharpening/polishing session but the stages on each stones would be shorter and that would wear less each stone and possibly your 8000 edge would be more of an 8000 stone than if the jump would have been made from 4000. At that scale is pretty hard to see the difference just by eye.
When flattening I start with a quick assessment by giving few strokes on a 325 or 600 diamond stone and then go to 1000 water stone and I can quickly see how bad or good is the back. This assessment step takes less than a minute but allows me to see the condition of the back. If it looks bad I get back to the diamond stone and flatten the whole back on it and after that I continue with 1000/4000/8000 Japanese bench stones using the Nagura stone for the 4000 and 8000.
I don;t own a Shapton plate I use only DMT diamond stones they are dead flat, fast and effective, and I also use them for keeping the bench stones perfectly flat. Don't forget this step when using bench stone to get perfect consistent results you will have to frequently flatten the stones. With the diamond stones this step takes a very short time and the results are perfect.
Neal is right, you could use the Green Chromium Oxide as well on the leather wheel, the theory say the abrasives in the compound are 0.5 microns, the manufacturer can say anything because most of us have no means to verify it so I tend to be more reserved about that. I personally tried it on the Tomrek and I saw no difference between the Tormek compound and the green beast, I prefer to use the Tormek compound as it doesn't gunk the wheel.

Ionut

[Ken S]

Very interesting and informative posts. 

Ionut, would you please post some more detail about your modification of the TT-50 to reduce vibrations.

Thanks,

Ken

[Steve Brown]

Another Question,
Jeff Farris does a Tormek chisel sharpening video. He paints majic marker on the face of the chisel and then keeps tweeking the chisel until the stone hits the face, removing all of the marker. He then declares that to be in the true square position and proceeds to sharpen the chisel. Seems to me that the tool holder is, by defination, square to the stone and turning the chisel would indeed remove the marker but would also skew the chisel and would leave the face out of square. Did I miss something? (Not trying to do an end run around you Jeff if you're listening in. Not sure if you monitor theese posts)
Steve

[ionut]

Hi Ken,

I am not sure if the website will allow me, I've tried in the past and it didn't work, but I will try to post a picture when I'll have some time. If that would not be possible I will send a personal message to everyone who's interested.

Ionut

[ionut]

Hi Steve,

I am not sure if I understand the question but the squareness depends on a number of factors.  Firstly the square jig is square to the universal support and not to the stone. Truing the stone would ensure that your universal support is parallel with the surface of the stone which makes the tool square in reference to the stone. The square jig has a reference shoulder on which the tool gets rested when is clamped and if the stone is true you should always end with a square edge. The marker method is for reproducing a bevel and it has nothing to do with how square the edge will end. The squereness is judged in comparison with the side of the tool that is referenced to the straight jig (SE-76). Another point of reference is the back of the tool in reference with which we judge the bevel angles which with SE-76 rests on the correct side of the jig in comparison with the old straight jig where the back of the tool was referenced against the opposite side (the clamp) which was not ensuring always square results. So Jeff and the manual are right the new straight jig with a properly trued stone should render square and consistent results.

Ionut

[tooljunkie]

Hi ionut
I would be interested in a personal message with a picture about on how to prepare the TT-50 the truing tool in order to avoid the vibrations.

Thanks
Dan

[Jeff Farris]

Another Question,
Jeff Farris does a Tormek chisel sharpening video. He paints majic marker on the face of the chisel and then keeps tweeking the chisel until the stone hits the face, removing all of the marker. He then declares that to be in the true square position and proceeds to sharpen the chisel. Seems to me that the tool holder is, by defination, square to the stone and turning the chisel would indeed remove the marker but would also skew the chisel and would leave the face out of square. Did I miss something? (Not trying to do an end run around you Jeff if you're listening in. Not sure if you monitor theese posts)
Steve

Steve, this was with the older jig, which allowed the tool to be clamped at a bit of an angle relative to the horizon. It took some tweaking to be sure the tool was flat in the holder. If the tool was square to begin with, the method I showed with the marker would maintain it.

[tooljunkie]

Hi Ken,

I am not sure if the website will allow me, I've tried in the past and it didn't work, but I will try to post a picture when I'll have some time. If that would not be possible I will send a personal message to everyone who's interested.

Ionut

I did notice the amount of play with the TT-50 & to reduce vibrations I held the square carriage that holds the diamonds up against the main body to reduce the movements.

Perhaps this is done on purpose but if not I would like to see the jig with less slop & movement between the threaded rod & main body.

[ionut]

Hi Dan,

That's correct Dan, the tie should go through the diamond housing and wrapped over the reference surface. It will reduce the vibration to the point where you can advance the diamond head as slow as you want creating a very fine surface on the stone with almost no scratches marks. I will try to post the picture tonight my time though for clarification.

Thanks,
Ionut

[Steve Brown]

Thanks Jeff, I am no longer confused, at least as far as the squarensss issue is concerned. But while I have you on the line, Jeff, If you were doing cabinet work and some furniture, would you be inclined to buy the 4000 grit Japanese waterstone? Or is that stone primarily aimed towards the turner?
Steve.