Stone Grader SP-650

[ionut]

Hi Steve,

My previous email had been removed and I agree with that because I was referring to some competitor products.
At the time when I was hand sharpening with water stones and today when I still lap the tools by hand I used to go up to 8000 grit in this sequence – 1000 (or 800) – 8000 or sometimes 4000 in between for the bevel and 1000-4000-8000 for the backs.  With the water stones you can go higher and you will get a longer lasting edge. How much longer, not that much based on what I've seen. So from the practical point of view and considering that I am working wood not steel and I hand sharpen witrh water stones I stop to the 8000.
Since I got converted to the Tormek I sharpen at 1000, hone the edge on a 4000 Tormek Japanese stone and do a final cleanup on the leather wheel which in theory is equivalent with 6000 grit. This is fast, reliable and  personally I don't see a reason why I would bother to go further than that, for me the effort to go from here to 8000 is not justified. If I would want to have the edge tool framed for showing to the people I would probably go to a higher polishing but fortunately I don't have to do that.

Ionut

[Ken S]

My most used chisels are a set of Stanley 60s, now almost forty years old.  If Japanese chisels are "the Ferraris of chisels", mine would probably be the Chevy pickup models.  They have served me well, and continue to do so.  I have used them for a few dovetails, mortise and tenons, fine paring, and a lot of not so genteel work.  I don't think they would benefit much from anything beyond the Tormek honing wheel.  Leonard Lee states in his sharpening DVD that most woodworkers really don't have the skill to benefit from finer honing that 4000.  I would agree with him.

I can also see the value in trying to push back the skill frontier be more painstaking sharpening for tools used in fine work.  I would not discourage anyone from the pursuit of excellence.  The Tormek can certainly handle the hard work of sharpening.  Whether or not one chooses to use other honing techniques, the Tormek is a trooper for grinding.

Ken

[tooljunkie]

I agree with not needing to do any further stone work once you have the Tormek system.
I can get more consistent results in a fraction of the time even though the Tormek system at 1000x & stropped on the leather wheel does not give you the same appearance of a High gloss mirror finish witch does not seem to show a scratch pattern.

I am totally satisfied with my T-7.
I am finding it hard to do any work because I keep finding something to sharpen, It is like a addiction right now.

[tooljunkie]

Hi Steve
There are users of this group that will know more than me.

But the quality of steel does make a big difference & depending what you paid for your newer Stanley plane it may not be the best quality of steel.
I haven't upgraded any of my old Stanley plane blades but I will at some point & go for A2 steel or I will go for a new high quality plane like Lie Neilsen or Veritas. http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/Search.aspx?action=n

Some of the blades that are available now are thicker to help reduce chatter.

If I do I think I will go for a blade & chip breaker combo like these.
http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=42607&cat=1,41182,43698,42607

As far as angles & micro bevels go & Tuning up a new plane these may be of help.

http://www.finewoodworking.com/FWNPDF/011172036.pdf

http://www.finewoodworking.com/FWNPDF/011177073.pdf

http://www.finewoodworking.com/FWNPDF/011186096.pdf

Hope this helps Steve

Dan

[Ken S]

Dan,

I would not replace blades on a plane until you have skillfully tuned the plane and sharpened the existing blade to razor sharpness.  Concurrently, you should acquire the skill to use the plane well.  At this point, you may well decide to replace the blade, upgrade the plane, or start making things.

I have watched Ernie Conover do some amazing work with an old Stanley smoothing plane he had just tuned. 

Ken

[tooljunkie]

I have tuned my planes to work very well & can get shavings as thin as .0001 but would still like to see how an A2 blade would stand up to the original.

Another reason to have more than 1 blade for a plane would be to allow you to have multiple bevel angles for different woods Soft, Hard, highly figured an so on.

This is a practicable & reasonable reason to own multiple blades.

I would replace a blade on a plane If I new or thought it was not great steel (say from China) or in my case because I want to.

And I could have multiple to switch out to handle highly figured woods as I mentioned.

I know what your saying but it is not like I am buying a car & before driving it with the original engine I slap a 1200 hp engine in an go.

[Ken S]

Dan,

Your points are well taken. 

Ken

[Steve Brown]

Hey Dan,
What have you done to flatten the bottom of your planes. I saw a thing on Youtube where a guy used 150 wet or dry on glass and ground that until the pencil marks disappeared. Ever done that? I just recovered a Stanley block plane that accidentally was left in the trunk of my car and got rusty. I tried Navel Jelly on a whim and that was not worth it in my opinion. I spent the day sanding with 400 and watching the Jets spank NE. I would just like to be sure the bottom is flat and remove as much of the staining as is practical. I also agree with you about having multiple plane irons. Can you tell us what irons you have been using that you like?
Thanks,
Steve

[tooljunkie]

Hi Steve

I have seen the same thing using sand paper on glass or other flat surfaces such as Granite or even your table saw or jointer.

in the past I did try this but in my case it did not work well but I did not use adhesive (only taped at perimeter) & found the sand paper would slip & wrinkle up, but done correctly it should work great.

If I was to do it againg I would use self adhesive sandpaper or use a spray adhesive for the plane bottom
The last methods before getting the Tormek T-7 I to flatten the Iron was using Japanese Water Stones
http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=43071&cat=1,43072

But I think the Norton stones cut faster (were not available when I started buying water stones)

I later purchased the The Stone Pond http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=33027&cat=1,43072,43071&ap=1

Lapping Grit
http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=33017&cat=1,43072
Here are some links 

Sharpening a Plane Iron with a Pitted Back
http://www.finewoodworking.com/pages/w00177.asp

Tune Up a Block Plane
http://www.finewoodworking.com/pages/w00167.asp

[Steve Brown]

Dan,
You certainly are a wealth of useful information. Thanks for your very helpfol feedback. There are several good videos on Youtube under the title "Usung and tuning a block plane" you might want to look at when you have a minute. Keep up the good work. People like you make for a strong woodworking community.
Steve

[Steve Brown]

Dan,
Another thing I forgot to mention, have you heard about a Nagura stone?
S

[tooljunkie]

Thanks Steve

Yes & I do have one
I can't say it make a big difference but the say it works

It create a slurry to help & it is said to flatten high spots on the stone but if it does it is hard to tell
You only use them on 4000, 6000, 8000 and 10,000 grit finishing waterstones.


Here are a few links

http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=51961&cat=1,43072,43071,51961

http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/nagurastone.aspx

http://www.woodturns.com/articles/tools/jap_waterstones.htm

http://www.japanwoodworker.com/page.asp?content_id=2817

There are many videos of using Nagura Stones on YoTube as well.

Dan

[ionut]

Hi Guys,

Just few more notes:

-   Multiple blades with different bevels are a must in my opinion, I personally like the low angle planes as they use the same shaped blades so they are interchangeable. Before tuning up the plane I would make sure the blad is in perfect condition first and the chip breaker if it has one.
-   Dan - most of my plane blades are A2 and they are great blades, they stand a lot of work after properly sharpened. Unfortunately not long ago I have  made my first wooden plane and I've used one of the Hock's blades which is a O1 one and I found out that the  O1 steel  allows a much better sharper edge, but of course it doesn't last that long so it is a matter of what kind of work is done and what is expected from the blade.
-   Steve - to minimize as much as possible the flattening of the plane you should aim in having flatten or rust cleaned three surfaces of the sole, the front,  the area in the front of the mouth opening and the heel of the plane sole, ideally you can go to have it all flat but that may take a long time. If it is a small block plane you can also use a 150  or 220 or 320 large DMT diamond stone to start, which ever you have, it will remove material fast.
-   I have no means to measure effects of the Nagura stone, but because I still flatten all my tools by hand I found out since I use it that  polishing happens much faster and when flattening it helps a lot with not having the blade locked on the stone which happens immediately on a 8000 stone when the stone and the blade are flat. I could not detect any other difference related to the quality of the edge when using the Nagura stone. I have doubts about using the Nagura stone for flattening or taking out the high spots, the makers present the stone as a conditioning  medium  for the polishing stone because of the fine slurry that gets created and not for flattening. For flattening the best is a large diamond stone.

Ionut

[tooljunkie]

Thanks for your info about the A1 & A2 blades.

I agree with your doubts about using the Nagura stone for flattening or taking out the high spots, even if it did shave the high spots down the stone is too small & would follow the highs & lows.
You would need a stone at least the same size (larger would be better).

I do have 2 Diamond stones from Norton but they are a little small for my liking & only come in Coarse (Yellow), 325 Grit & Fine (Orange), 750 Grit

The next time I will go for the large DMT diamond stones.

Dan

[Ken S]

It seems there are probably two groups on this forum: Older guys (like me) who have acquired their tools over the years and younger members who are actively acquiring tools.

Tools tend to be around for a long time, both good and not so good ones.  I think there is value in pursuing multiple blades for a plane.  However, before invested much in blades, I would make sure I had a first-rate plane for them.  I think Ionut is right on recommending low angle planes.  My first choice would be a Lie-Nielsen low Angle Jack Plane.  The plane comes with a low angle blade. A toothed blade is available, as is a scraper blade.  Lie-Nielsen will supply A2 blades in any bevel angle requested.  This plane is an outstanding tool, and can be made to function as several planes.

A large diamond stone would be very nice to flatten planes and chisels.  If one intends to flatten many tools, it would seem a good investment.  For a Stanley block plane, wet or dry sandpaper glued onto a piece of glass will do a very fine job for very little cost.  The cost of a large diamond stone and a replacement A2 blade would go a long way toward the cost of a Lie-Nielsen or Lee Valley plane.

I presently own one Lee Valley plane (the small plough) and one lie-Nielsen chisel.  The quality and engineering is outstanding in both.  If I had to replace my old tools I would go for this quality, even though it would mean a longer acquisition time.

Ken