Getting a scalpel sharp mirror edge

[Grinder]

Hi New'b ohere. I bought a used T7 and I'm really enjoying it. One of my reasons for buying the T7 was the attraction of the leather honing wheel as I have long been a disciple of stropping an edge.

However I'm disappointed so far in the honing wheel as it just doesn't seem to strop either quickly or fast enough. Using stones an old shoe leather strop I can achieve a mirror finish scalpel edge. But not with the Tormek. I use plenty of the compound but still struggle to get a stropped razor blade sharp edge.

Any help or advice would be most welcome.
Thank you.

[Herman Trivilino]

Well, Grinder, let's see if we can isolate the variables. Try sharpening with bench stones as you usually do, and then use the Tormek leather honing wheel instead of the strop. The leather honing wheel needs some breaking in, too. If you applied oil to aid in this process and applied too much it will impair its ability to remove steel.

When you do use the Tormek grindstone make sure that after you've shaped your knife and established the bevel, you use the coarse side of the stone grader to remove embedded particles of steel. Use clean water in the trough. Then spend a lot of time applying the fine side of the stone grader to the grindstone. The surface should feel smooth. Then do the final grinding on your knife. If you're still not confident in the use of the leather honing wheel, use the strop instead and see how the edge looks and works.

In summary, the problem is either that you're not getting the edge smooth enough before you apply the leather wheel, or your leather wheel is not properly impregnated with compound, or both. The above mentioned "experiments" should help you figure it out.

[grepper]

Herman mentioned properly impregnating the leather wheel with compound.  You mentioned that you purchased the machine used, so I presume the leather wheel is probably black in color and broken in.  If that is true, it is possible to use too much compound and/or too much oil.

The idea is that the leather holds the compound to form an abrasive surface.  With too much of either compound or oil, the compound can just slide around on the surface of the wheel and not cut as it is intended to.  With a little experience you can feel a slight resistance or tug on the blade with the proper amount of oil/compound.  It's a little hard to explain, but when you feel it its noticeable and there is an intuitive feel that the compound is cutting and doing it job.

That being said, Herman is absolutely correct about getting the blade shaped and sharp before honing.  You can't sharpen or remove much metal with the leather wheel.

Hope that helps. 

[stevebot]

The leather wheel needs just enough polishing compound to be hazy and not shiney. Less is more. Too much and there is no friction.

[Grinder]

Thanks guys. I do spend a great deal of time grinding a good bevel. First with rough grade then using the fine side of the grading stone I smooth the stone and repeat the process. At this stage it will cut paper but I want more! Lol.

I think you all have it right with the honing wheel. It is very dark and oily looking and it's as slippy and shinny as gear cogs. So I'll put it in the dishwasher and try and clean it up. It's either that or a new one. When new is it a rough suede or a hard leather please?
Thanks

[Herman Trivilino]

I think you all have it right with the honing wheel. It is very dark and oily looking and it's as slippy and shinny as gear cogs.

Mine was like that. With the motor running use a putty knife or similar tool to scrape off the crud. Keep applying compound and lifting off crud and it will eventually return to good form.

I've never been brave enough for the dishwasher treatment, but if you go that route please do let us know how it comes out. I'm curious.

[Ken S]

Welcome to the forum, Grinder. Great screen name, by the way!

Grinder, you gave me a good laugh! The dishwasher idea may be quite good....You are either very brave or not married!

On a more serious note, I suspect you don't know what the former owner may have used with the leather honing wheel. Buying a Tormek and then cheaping out on honing compound seems foolish to me, but I am sure it happens. Also, the former owner, like me, may have used other compounds hoping for different results. in my case, I have a second separate leather honing wheel which I use with valve grinding compound. it does not leave quite as high a polish as the Tormek honing compound, However, it does cut more quickly. I still use the standard honing compound, but have occasionally found uses for the valve grinding compound.

The reason I mention this is that I think you can probably revive your leather honing wheel. The guys have given you some very good advice, and you sound like an old sharpening hand. If you do decide to replace the honing wheel, I would try using valve grinding compound with your old wheel. Mark the wheel to avoid confusion. It will give you an extra option.

Do keep us posted with your progress. Best of luck with the dishwasher!

Ken

[grepper]

I would think scraping, wiping with a cloth and maybe a little bit of sandpaper should get the leather cleaned up and the excess oil removed just fine.  The leather is not very thick and can only absorb a small amount of excess oil.  In fact, if you just continue to use it the oil will start to dry out anyway.

I doubt cleaning with detergent would be necessary.  I'd avoid the dishwasher and do it by hand with some dish soap and a brush if you really, really feel it necessary.  I would definitely avoid the heat/dry cycle if you decided to go the dishwasher route.  The heat may adversely affect the leather or the adhesive used to stick it to the wheel.

And... black is good when it comes to the leather wheel.  It gets that way from proper use.  Slippery and oily is not good.  Like Steve said, there needs to be friction.

And... when the leather is new it's rough suede, but that does not last long at all.  It gets pretty smooth quickly.

[OnealWoodworking]

On a more serious note, I suspect you don't know what the former owner may have used with the leather honing wheel. Buying a Tormek and then cheaping out on honing compound seems foolish to me, but I am sure it happens. Also, the former owner, like me, may have used other compounds hoping for different results. in my case, I have a second separate leather honing wheel which I use with valve grinding compound. it does not leave quite as high a polish as the Tormek honing compound, However, it does cut more quickly. I still use the standard honing compound, but have occasionally found uses for the valve grinding compound.

I agree with everything you said - I just bolded the one part because I think it is VERY important to note.

People change stones to get a different finish or at a different speed in the same way that you suggest changing honing wheels / compounds and they never think twice about it because they know it 'works' for them.

Your advice here is spot on in my opinion. ESPECIALLY if one is using any sort of Tormek jig on the honing side to keep the angle 'correct'. When sharpening something like a 'chisel' per say with a fixed angle being held in a jig - You get to near 'mirror reflection' faster if you can swap out wheels on the honing side for different grits of compound. This swap takes only seconds on a Tormek and is infinitely faster (and cheaper in the long run) than properly cleaning an existing wheel and then re-loading it with a different grit compound.

[Grinder]

Once again thank you all for your advice. I scraped as much crud off as possible, wiped it with a scourer as it rotated and it was still very slick and oily. So now it's in the dishwasher! Yes I have a very understanding wife. LOL.

I'll keep you all updated how it survives.
Cheers.

[Grinder]

Ok here is the update. My oh my what a wonderful result!!!

Virtually all the oil and crud have gone completely. The surface is now a natural dark and to the touch feels like sandpaper. I cannot wait to try it out, but I'm going to give it 24 hours to completely dry. Looking at photos of a new wheel I expect the surface feels slightly like softish suede. In which case the dishwasher result is even better, as it feels rough, very dry and almost like grit or rough sandpaper. I expect this sucker is going to hone like a demon!

In conclusion, the honing wheel can be safely restored in a dishwasher. I used a 55C heat cycle.

[Jan]

Thank you, Grinder, for sharing the results of your daring experiment, approved by your understanding wife, and congrats to your admirable result!   

Jan

[Herman Trivilino]

Glad to know the dishwasher experiment worked. I look forward to an update on how well the clean honing wheel performs. You may need a few drops of mineral oil or the like to break it in. Be stingy with the oil, and keep working in small amounts of compound. Applying small amounts more frequently is better than applying large amounts less frequently.

But what I really want to know about is the fate of the dishwasher!

[Rob]

Ok here is the update. My oh my what a wonderful result!!!

Virtually all the oil and crud have gone completely. The surface is now a natural dark and to the touch feels like sandpaper. I cannot wait to try it out, but I'm going to give it 24 hours to completely dry. Looking at photos of a new wheel I expect the surface feels slightly like softish suede. In which case the dishwasher result is even better, as it feels rough, very dry and almost like grit or rough sandpaper. I expect this sucker is going to hone like a demon!

In conclusion, the honing wheel can be safely restored in a dishwasher. I used a 55C heat cycle.

What a brilliant idea....nice one :-)

[Grinder]

Hi Everyone. Here is an update on how the dishwasher restored honing wheel performs.

Well this morning we had a work party on one of the lakes in my Angling Club. I took my axe and let the lads go at it on tree roots which were in the path. Of course by the time they had finished not only was the edge runined there were massive nicks in it as well. Just the test I wanted. Compared to a knife an axe is a real pig to bevel perfectly. Nevertheless, using the axe jig the bevels came up so good. Already sharp enough after the fine grade to cut paper. So next step the honing wheel now completely dry and back on the Tormek. To distribute the honing compound evenly I applied it to a rag and span the wheel and worked it in to prevent streaking and that was a good idea with nice and even distribution. So step one, hone the burr. Step two, polish finish both bevels starting with a heavy press on the wheel and finishing with a very gentle press. The result? Doesn't just cut paper, it slices right through it. The edge feels sharp as a razor blade.

Job done. If your honing wheel isn't doing the job well any more I can totally recommend the dishwasher restoration procedure. I am very, very pleased.