T4 review, part three

[Ken S]

For part three of this review, I would like to discuss some things which most new buyers (T4 or T7) do not see until long after the purchase. Please keep in mind that these reviews are based on my observations. They are not official Tormek AB ideas.

I learned a lot about my first Tormek T7 when I upgraded to the EZYLock shaft. My original shaft was stainless steel, so I had no concern with rust problems. I liked the quick change idea and wanted to keep current. Examining the new EZYLock shaft before I installed it was educational for me. It said a lot about Tormek engineering, quality and cost control. 

The new shaft was very well machined. I was impressed. The kit included everything I needed to replace the old shaft. The change took ten or fifteen minutes. (Unless Tormek has included directions,  be sure to draw a diagram before removing the old shaft.) The shaft uses a left hand thread on the grinding wheel end. Removing and reinstalling is really Easy.

I did not particularly notice, but read in later posts that the nut for the leather honing wheel side is not stainless steel. At first this seemed strange. However, all hardware on the "wet" side of the shaft is stainless steel. The only non stainless steel parts are on the leather honing wheel "dry side" where the extra cost of the stainless steel parts would not serve any benefit.

All new Tormek models come with the EZYLock shaft standard. New owners will only see their shafts during regreasing.

When I acquired the new T4, I set it side by side with my T7.  I wanted to take some quiet time examining the differences and similarities between the two. Most of the differences are obvious. He T7 is larger and approximately twice as heavy as the T4. The grinding wheel of the T7 is 50mm larger in diameter and 10mm thicker than the T4.

The shaft is remarkably similar. The T4 shaft is shorter, however, it is the same diameter as the T7 shaft and has the same 12mm threads on each end (right hand thread on the honing wheel side and left hand threads on the grinding wheel side.) In fact, the grinding wheels for the T4 fit nicely on the T7. The only thing needed for an exact fit is an extra washer for between the stone an the shaft, a standard Tormek replacement part.

With the possible exception of things like sharpening Chinese cleavers, using the smaller diameter grinding wheels is not practical on the T7. The point of this is that the T4 and T7 share the same diameter shaft.

The plastic grinding wheel nut on the T4 seems like an obvious cost cutting move to me. I am not impressed with it compared to the stainless steel nut on the T7. However, it looks like it will go the distance and is probably adequate for its purpose.

The other cost cutting part I notice is the nut which holds the leather honing wheel.  It is a standard metric nut, and certainly adequate for its purpose. However, the T7 has a much nicer plastic covered brass threaded nut which is easily removed and replaced without tools. This bothered me enough to order a replacement part. I like to remove the leather honing wheel after each session for cleaning the housing beneath it. For most users, especially those who attach the profile leather honing disks, the standard issue nut would be fine. Both of these nuts seem logical places to save on manufacturing costs without jeopardizing quality.

I was surprised to see how many parts of both Tormek models I would consider standard good quality hardware store replacement parts. In my opinion, this is clever design. The machining of the specialized parts is very well done. Things which should be heavy duty certainly are. The basic nuts and bolts are just basic nuts and bolts, which keeps the total cost down. Well done.

The plastic housing is obviously not the same as the steel housing on the T7. However, looking closely at it, it looks substantial. In normal use, I do not foresee any problems with it. Redesigning the all plastic housing of the T3 to the combination zinc and plastic housing of the T4 does represent a substantial improvement. Not only is heat dissapated better, the shaft and sleeve openings are precision machined into the zinc. This is no small improvement.

I learned something about the "fifty per cent duty" of the motor while doing grinding tests. Under most circumstances, the myth of having to wait idly for thirty minutes after using the T4 for thirty minutes really is a myth. The operator will tire long before the motor. If someone planned to have a team of sharpeners alternating duty on a continuous basis, there might be a problem. In my opinion, this is a rediculous situation. As stated in part two, both the T4 and T7 seemed to cut at about the same speed in my tests. I would not factor the motor in while deciding which Tormek to choose.

I was initially surprised that the T4 did not have its own handbook. The more I used it, the more it seemed like the T7. What was especially surprising was that the knife jig settings were almost identical. The sleeves are located to account for the smaller diameter grinding wheel. Clever engineering.

I do have a few complaints with the T4. Whether it is included in the initial purchase price or as an essential accessory, the diamond grinding wheel dresser is a necessity. I dislike that it is not included. That would raise the basic $399 market price point.

As advertised, the T4 is sold without grinding jigs, with the hype that one does not have to pay for jigs not used. Be that as it may, the basic package can only be used for freehand grinding, and that only until the wheel needs to be dressed.

The T4 does cost less than the T7. However, the difference, once the proper tooling is added, is not substantial. I would much prefer to see the T4 marketed as a more portable T7 rather than a lower cost model. Doubtless some initial T4 users may eventually switch to a T7 for various reasons. Should they choose to do so, they will find that all of their T4 jigs are fully interchangeable with the T7. I use the word "switch" rather than "upgrade".

I also believe many initial T7 users may eventually either add a T4 or switch to the smaller unit. Again, I use "switch" rather than "downgrade". I believe most of the switching this way will be because of switching to smaller living quarters.

At this point, I am enjoying using both units. There is no poor choice, only a lighter option and a heavier duty option. Either will suffice. I would rate both models quite high in design and quality. Both are lifelong purchases.

Ken

[Herman Trivilino]

I do have a few complaints with the T4. Whether it is included in the initial purchase price or as an essential accessory, the diamond grinding wheel dresser is a necessity. I dislike that it is not included. That would raise the basic $399 market price point.

I agree that without the diamond dressing tool the Tormek is incomplete. Perhaps even useless. The grindstone is designed to wear in the same way as brake pads and brake shoes. The difference, though, is that even wear of the grindstone is essential to not just good performance of the Tormek, but it is needed for adequate performance. There were times in the past when I'd get lazy and not keep the grindstone true. That's a mistake I no longer repeat. Not only can you not get tools properly sharpened with an out-of-true grindstone, the condition of an out-of-true grindstone quickly deteriorates. It gets a lot worse a lot faster. Then you have to remove a lot of material to get it true so you're actually shortening the life of the grindstone when you make that mistake. Many newbies want to save that precious grindstone so they delay truing. That's a rookie mistake.

After reading your excellent and thorough review I am even more convinced that the T4 exists as a marketing scheme. This is not a bad thing. Without successful marketing no company can succeed, and then their products however excellent become unavailable to consumers. So without successful marketing we wouldn't have Tormeks to buy.

Based on what you're telling us, the T4 seems to be a good product. But space and weight savings appear to be its major advantage over the T7.

I've said this before. This marketing scheme is a common one, and it's a good one. Having a lower-priced alternative gives the potential buyer a way to ease his mind into justifying the purchase. It may be hard to justify paying $600 for something you want, but you can justify $350. Once you get your head there, you've only got to justify an additional $250 and you're where you need to be to make the purchase.

The fact that Tormek upgraded the T3 to the T4 is evidence that they are invested in making it a quality product, not just a marketing scheme. But for the marketing scheme to work the product must be of a good quality. Kind of a Catch 22 for manufacturers.

[Ken S]

Excellent post, Herman. I agree wholeheartedly. Buying a Tormek with no wheel dresser is like buying a car with the fifty mile donut tires. Advanced Machinery used to sell the T4 with the stone grader and the wheel dresser. That seemed a more realistic package to me. However, the marketing boys have taken over, and they now sell knife and hand tool packages with the option of including the wheel dresser at additional cost. None of the packages include the SE-76 square edge jig, which I consider the fundamental jig.

In my opinion, every new Tormek buyer should purchase the wheel dresser and the SE-76. if one reads the first post in this category, my strong feelings for beginning Tormek sharpening with a 3/4" bench chisel are strongly stated. I would make this recommendation to everyone, even those who do not have a woodshop. The bench chisel is the most basic tool to sharpen. When one learns how to sharpen it well, many secondary necessary skills are acquired. We learn how to dress the grinding wheel; how to use the stone grader and leather honing wheel proficiently; the feel and sound of good grinding; how to align and check the tool properly. The basic technique for Tormek proficiency can be learned with the bench chisel.

The marketing people have apparently focused on a price point. There is nothing wrong with that per se, however, no one should purchase a Tormek thinking he has a working machine for $399 instead of paying $665 for the T7. The T4 is a solid machine built for the long haul. It is the logical choice for many buyers and a bad choice for no one. It should be purchased for its strengths, portability and a smaller footprint. To believe the marketing lower cost hype is foolish. Especially if one shops carefully, the cost difference between the T4 and the T7 is minimal. Earlier this year, the T7 was available from authorized dealers with the knife jig and rotating platform included in the base price. That made the price difference even smaller. The logical choice is the one which fits the needs of the buyer.

Ken

[Herman Trivilino]

That's an excellent point concerning the chisel. Even if a new Tormek owner didn't have a chisel, buying one for this purpose would be a good idea. Most people without chisels don't have them because they've never learned to use them. And the reason for that is because dull chisels don't work well, so anyone who's tried to learn to use a chisel is likely to have tried on a dull chisel. And quickly decided that the tool is nearly useless, or perhaps that they don't have the skill to make it work correctly. I myself never really became a skilled chisel user until I had a Tormek. Even a new chisel is not as sharp as it could or should be.

That new Tormek owner with a new chisel will get to see that he can easily and quickly flatten the back and get a razor sharp edge that makes the tool better than new.

Then comes the problem of getting the end square. 

[Stickan]

Hi,
My feeling is that it´s mostly woodworkers on this forum and Tormek has since day one been a machine for woodturners and woodcarvers.
But for some years now Tormek has started to become the machine for hunters, butchers, fish industry and in general knife users. They did buy the T-3 and
don´t want the SE-76 jig. They felt that they were paying for a jig they don´t need.
That is a reason for the T-4 to not have a jig included and the buyer can freely buy the jigs he needs.
We can discuss that the T7 is a better buy because of the bigger stone, stronger motor, more accessories and so on but there are many users who thinks the T4 is good enough for them even if they know the sellpoints for the T7.
It takes less place, easier to bring and if you are only sharpening knifes its a perfect machine.

Herman,
"Then comes the problem of getting the end square.  "

I have sharpened a lot of chisels on the T3, T4 and T7 and this issue is the subject we answer most on the support mail.
We have had machines and some SE-76 sent to us and we find them to work as they are supposed to.
I found that most users don´t mount the tool as in the handbook, even if they say so.
First is the setup of the tool in the jig.

Think of the knobs on the jig as A and B, A being the knob away from the side where you mount the chisel.
Use A to get the thickness of the tool, lock it and open it enough to move the chisel to the shoulder were it should rest on and lock knob B. After this you don´t touch knob A. Now the clamp is parallel with upper flat side.

When the wanted angle is found and you start to sharpen the tool, press on the centre of the chisels back. Check by eye if you got a 90 degree angle on the tool after a short while. If it starts to get out of square, press on the side of the tool where you need to remove more steel. Then you will be able to get a straight chisel.

And my personal opinion is that if you think it looks like 90 degree it is good enough.
I have learned that old or often used narrower chisels can become a bit twisted. Then you need to use as little protrusion as possible to prevent a problem getting the chisel correct. Often the problem is the chisel itself and not the jig or machine.

Stig

[Ken S]

Stig, your points are well taken.  I remember in your program with Stumpy Nubs ("Why does the tormek cost so much?"), Stumpy asked you what you sharpen. Your answer, "knives, (pause) and chisels". I'm the reverse, "chisels, (long pause) and knives"). I still believe a chisel is the easiest tool to help learn the Tormek. However, I would probably feel differently about having to purchase the SE-76 if I had no interest in woodworking.

Incidentally, I would highly recommend the interview with Stumpy to the entire forum.

We live in an era where we expect everything to be "plug and play". The Tormek, like all good tools is not quite plug and play. To fully experience the precision and versatility of the Tormek requires a learning period. This learning period is much assisted with careful study of the handbook.

Just after posting this review, I happened to try honing a chisel with the T4 using the SE-76 in the support bar. I generally hone freehand. I have honed with the chisel in the jig with the T7 in the past. I thought I would try it with the T4. To my surprise, it would not work. The jig bumped into the support bar, preventing the chisel from touching the leather honing wheel.I checked the handbook in the leather honing wheel section and found nothing about this. This also surprised me. I emailed Stig to see if I was missing something. later that night, I did find the answer on page 126 of the latest edition of the handbook. It clearly states that the jig works with the T7 and suggests using the Universal Support with the T3. Stig emailed me another reference to the situation. The honing issue is really a non issue. Using the universal support or honing by hand both work quite well. My point in this is that there is much to be learned from studying the handbook. "Plug and play" is much assisted by careful study.

I do not mean to downplay the T7 in these reviews. My T7 (actually two T7s, the first one having been stolen) has given me trooper service since 2009. I have no doubt that it will be a lifetime purchase. Should the time come when I have to move to smaller quarters, I hope to continue to have a workshop of sorts. At that point, I have no reservations about switching to the smaller T4, or whatever T is being produced at that time. Whatever jigs I will bring with me at that time will work flawlessly with the smaller Tormek. Before closing, I have found it increasingly convenient to have two Tormeks, the large and small each having their own unique advantages while being fully interchangeable. There are no bad Tormeks, only models which may fit the users needs more closely.

Ken

[Rob]

my sharpening "station" (which I built of course) has permanently setup a T7, a bench grinder with BGM-100 and another linisher style sharpener.  Each has its own job which cuts down my time to sharpen to virtually nothing.  I also carry in my overalls at all times a diamond credit card file and a diamond needle file and in the draw of my sharpening station is a good old fashioned oil stone.

One thing I'll say to any turners out there.  Just when you think your bowl gouge has gone off the boil, instead of going back to your grinding medium of choice, grab your diamond credit card and just run it round the elliptical profile from the bevel upwards.....it gives a stunningly sharp edge for sheer scraping as it raises a lovely burr.  Brilliant time saving and high quality tip that one :-)

[Ken S]

Good post, Rob, using each tool to its best advantage.

Ken

[Herman Trivilino]

First is the setup of the tool in the jig.

And making sure that the grindstone is true.

If it starts to get out of square, press on the side of the tool where you need to remove more steel. Then you will be able to get a straight chisel.

Yes. My point is that for a beginner this is part of the learning curve. I think that forewarning them is important. Proper set up is necessary for a square end because without you'll never get one. But it is not sufficient. Skill and experience are also required. This last point is never mentioned until after they encounter the problem.

And my personal opinion is that if you think it looks like 90 degree it is good enough.

Again, to a trained eye that's true. But beginners may not share this sentiment. They are too busy trying to learn things like how to properly grade the grindstone.

[Herman Trivilino]

"Plug and play" is much assisted by careful study.

In defense of our plug-and-play culture I must say that part of what's promoted it is poorly written manuals. Tormek, like many other manufacturers, has a very well written manual. But far too may have poorly written manuals. You pretty much have to already know what they're talking about in some of the passages to be able to understand them.

Many international manufacturers don't bother having their manuals properly translated. To do it properly the translator needs to posses two qualities. Fluency in both languages, and a working knowledge of the device.

[Ken S]

I will tell the full story in the diamond dresser topic. I got my present diamond working again and was able to nicely dress both the T7 a and the T4. The T7 wheel looked just a little out to me. It took a full turn of the micro adjust (in six small increments to fully dress it. I was surprised. When really surprised me was that the wheel on the T4 took about the same amount to be fully true again. That wheel looked ok to me. This affirms my belief that every T4 purchaser should also purchase a TT-50 truing tool. Not having a truing tool is like buying a car with a quarter tank of gasoline. It will run fine for a little while......

I agree with Herman about the Tormek manual. i have found a few small items which I would like to see corrected or brought up to date in the next edition, but, by and large, it is a solid reference. The last time I learned anything useful from studying it was earlier today.

Good point about the skills needed for translation.

Ken




Ken