BGM100

[mike40]

Can the Tormek diamond wheel dressing tool/jig be used to square up bench grinder wheel using the BGM100?

[Herman Trivilino]

I dunno.  That's a new one on me.  The thing is, if the diamond tip breaks off that's an expensive mistake.

[Ken S]

Mike, I would be very reluctant to try.  I base that on only my gut feeling.  The Tormek dresser is designed to work with a wheel revolving at ninety rpm in a water bath.  Using it to dress a wheel revolving at 3450 rpm and dry seems asking for disaster.

I use an inexpensive diamond bar purchased from Lee Valley (I'm sure available from many sources) to dress my dry grinder wheels.  Before I had that, I used a single point diamond.  The diamond bar is easier to use.  Dressing by eye is not difficult.  In fact, I would probably dress the wheel with a slight crown now.  The decreased actual rubbing area allows a cooler grind.

If you should decide to try using the Tormek dresser with a dry wheel, by all means use very very light passes and make sure you have enough cash to replace the diamond part of the jig.

Fortune favors the brave......sometimes.

Ken

[mike40]

Thanks guys. I just wondered. I do have a fairly inexpensive diamond dresser for my bench grinder, but I thought maybe the Tormek one would do an even better job. I don't have the BGM jig yet, but I am thinking about it for the near future. I think using that jig for repairs and shaping would be much faster and also save my Tormek stone from a lot of unnecessary  wear. I have a Wolverine jig at present and judging from the pics I could still use it even after mounting the BGM jig. I am thinking about getting the turning kit, or at least the main jigs included in it, but since I'm not doing much turning these days I can wait till Christmas for that . Can those jigs  be used for my carving tools also? I would probably buy the various leather honing set at the same time. Do you think they work well?

[Herman Trivilino]

Mike, I would recommend you view the videos of the use of these special purpose jigs. 

Start here http://tormek.com/international/en/grinding-jigs/ and then search YouTube for more.

Every jig has its benefits and drawbacks. 

[Rob]

I would use the t bar style dressers too.. I only bought one two weeks ago for £8 and its absolutely great on my dry grinder.  I put the usb up really close to the wheel (using the bgm of course) and then just hold it at right angles to the wheel and parallel to the usb by eye. A very light touch is all that's needed to break off the high spots...works a treat and in double quick time.
I have to say I'm really really liking the BGM on the dry grinder, it's a superb solution to sharpening HSS turning tools.

If you get the BGM Mike, you might like to consider pricing the jigs separately to see if you'll save money.  It will all depend on which tools you routinely use.  I am always sharpening bowl gouges, spindle gouges, round nosed scrapers, a bedan, skew chisels and a parting tool.  For that, my setup with a BGM and dry grinder in addition to my Tormek is great with the following jigs:

SVD -185 gouge jig - bowl gouges, some spindle gouges
Torlok Toolrest - scrapers and bedans (plus many other uses)
Multi jig with both closed and open seats - roughing gouge (for spindle work) and parting tools and skew chisels
TTS 100 angle setter for gouges - quick setup for repeating bevel angles on complex grinds

That's my list...I did buy the turning tool set and regret doing so now as it cost over £200.  It contains a couple other bits and pieces in that I could have saved money on I believe. For one thing I pretty much don't use the additional leather strops to hone the inside flutes of gouges.  My take on the reality of gouge sharpening is that they take an unbelievable battering once they're held to the work...Its like your other post where you were discussing that ultra sharp edge...in my opinion, honing a bowl gouge is overkill given the job its going to do so I never use those extra leather wheels any more.

But the jigs mentioned above are indispensable.  They all work on both the tormek and via the BGM the dry grinder.  Again, my personal approach is gouges on the tormek because when sharpening a fingernail grind there is quite an eccentric swing to get from one side of the bevel to the other.  That makes having a wide wheel like the T7 really useful for avoiding falling off the edge.  My dry grinder has smaller width wheels.

I have the torlok toolrest permanently attached to the bgm, set at the angle for my scrapers and I can get a beautiful edge on my scraper, with very useful burr...in about 10 seconds :-)).

I've also deliberately set my three sizes of scraper to the same angle so that setup works for all three and also my bedan. The only setup changes I now need to make are to accommodate the skew and my roughing gouge which I have a custom spacer for to set the usb.

Hope that helps.

[Herman Trivilino]

...in my opinion, honing a bowl gouge is overkill given the job its going to do so I never use those extra leather wheels any more.

I wonder if maybe it's the wood carvers who make more use of those profiled leather wheels.

[Rob]

That's a good point Herman, I can certainly see why a wood carver would get benefit from the mini honing wheels because of course their tools aren't subjected to such impactful mechanical forces like the spinning lathe.  In fact, a razor sharp edge is critical to some of the fine work for carvers so I think if carving in on someone's list then those wheels would have a home.

The thing is, they're part of the turning tool set and I think that point Mike made about how long would a razor sharp edge actually last versus a notionally "normally sharp" edge is no more true than at the extreme end, namely turning.  Drill bits are probably on a par with turning tools for hard work.

The fact is that any even HSS tool that is used for turning is subjected to immense friction at its edge and the finer that edge, the sooner it will dull.

So I think the contoured strop wheels aren't good value for turners.  I never use mine any more.  In fact, the very faff required to squirt paste on the wheels, hone, wipe it off etc just keeps you away from the lathe.  That is really precious time because the most critical time to sharpen your tools other than at the start is just before the very last cut.  That's because the sharper the tool, the better the finish...less sanding (the holy grail for turners).  Just as you're getting to the last cut you're typically really in "the zone" and are fully connected to the piece in the art sense.  That last cut requires concentration and a deft "feel" where man and material are kind of blended, when you get that right it really is quite an artistic moment.  The very last thing I want is to have that zone interrupted by an awkward overly time consuming sharpening process.  I want to get back to finishing the project before I "cool down" so to speak.  I can get a finish direct off the lathe tools that requires sanding only from 320 grit now....that's easily enough.  So I believe this turners package is over marketed just to get premium price.  The core jigs are where the value is...the rest is a bit fluffy for my taste

I think those wheels have a role but for me its not in turning.  Carving.....entirely plausible

[Jeff Farris]

I'm going to offer a dissenting opinion on honing and turning. While it isn't something widely practiced, it has certain applications where it offers an advantage. Specifically, skews and detail gouges really benefit from a highly polished surface. I also polish the top side of my scrapers to a mirror finish and then sharpen the bevel with the stone graded fine. The finer the edge on your scraper, the finer the finish will be on your stock.

[Rob]

Hi Jeff  - I also polish the tops of my scrapers (learned that tip from your video  but not the other tools. The thing is Jeff, I can get a surface straight off the tools that is good enough to sand at 320 plus....that's easily enough for me as a burst with the power sander and I'm done.

So when you say skews etc benefit from a really fine edge....I'm not entirely sure what you mean?  Point being that a 320 grit finish with no discernible tool marks is "good enough" to commence sanding.  You're not saying that you can avoid sanding altogether are you?
Also I would be interested in your perspective on Mike's point about how long that hard won edge actually lasts.  I appreciate a fine edge will mean longer between sharpenings but surely you would agree that edge will be quickly "normalised" when used in turning?

So I guess what I'm arguing is the play-off in effort versus the incremental add in edge quality isn't worth the time for my current situation.

Plus....Jeff...now be honest...you always defend the Tormek way......go on admit it 

[mike40]

Jeff  That sounds like good advice. I have never honed a scraper and polish the top, but i can see the possible benefits since it is a finishing tool. I do always hone my skew to a fine edge. As for the detail gouges, I have always used then straight from the bench grinder, but it would be worth a try to hone them as they are usually used in places which are hard to sand without softening the edges and that might eliminate the sanding altogether.

Rob Looking at the turning set, I see that there are some things there like the machine cover for instance which I wouldn't buy as I will be making my own cover, and a couple of other items which I couldn't get to excited about. I do a little wood carving and it seemed to me that a lot of the tools in the that kit would also be useful to sharpen my carving tools. I have to admit that I hate sharpening carving tools, probably because I'm not very good at it. Thats where the various leather honing wheels would come in handy too and I could also try them on my small gouges. I can see that I have to keep an open mind as other's experience and advice rolls in to get the full benefit from my Tormek.

Herman  Thanks.  I have been looking at all those videos and also the Youtube ones with Jeff. I am learning from them and I will be rewatching them for every new jig before I actually use them.

Ken  Thanks, I will take your advice.

[Rob]

Careful Mike....you're sitting so perfectly on the fence you may get splinters up your.....

[Rob]

seriously though....given you have carving tools those extra wheels may really benefit you because those tools don't work nearly so hard.

Also, of course try honing your turning tools...report your progress here.  One thing the tormek supports really well is many different approaches. 

[mike40]

I am pretty skeptical when it comes to sharpening turning tools Rob as I have been at it for quite a few years now, but I don't want to miss out on something good by not trying it out. The carving tools are

actually my main motivation for being interested in the turning tools jigs. I am aware though that HSS steel has got to be pretty time consuming to hone, and if I'm going to hone I first have to sharpen, so the

whole thing does seem time consuming. That said, I am willing to give it a try just to confirm my suspicions if for no other reason. I'll let you know sometime after Christmas which is the earliest I would be

buying these additional jigs, so please don't hold your breath in anticipation!

[Rob]

You will be very pleasantly surprised with the turning tool jigs Mike.  In my opinion they are the very best value you can get from the tormek.  I am a particular fan of the articulated gouge jig because I use gouges a lot.  It is a quite brilliant invention with huge control over bevel angles and repeatability.

I also find that sharpening with that jig is an absolute breeze.  It really truly isn't time consuming at all.  It is in fact incredibly fast and incredibly accurate.  You will have a treat sharpening with them, its the polishing I'm not convinced of.  The edge you get off the grindstone at 1000 grit is really good, especially if your last pass is a very gentle one.  To my mind that's almost like taking the grit to an even higher level.  Polishing I have no doubt adds an extra incremental bit of excellence...and perhaps for a goblet stem or something really fine then that's appropriate.  But for general lathe work I believe that extra little bit of edge is overkill.  It would be interesting to see how a carving tool behaves though.