many questions (problems)

[jazzlover]

I am using the Tormek T-3 along with the LV MKII and waterstones.  One problem I am having is that when I go from using the Tormek to grind a bevel of 25 degrees it seems that when I set the MKII to 25 degrees I seem to be regrinding a new bevel.  I seem to be making contact at just the "heel" of the bevel and not at the tip of the edge.  I have ensured that my stones are absolutely flat.  My suspicion is that 25 degrees on the Tormek is not the same as 25 degrees with the MKII honing jig.  So I assume I may have to adjust one or the other.  Has anyone encountered this situation and if so what are your recommendations.

One other quirk is that when I use the stone grader the scratch patterns becomes inconsistant.  I do notice that my stone grader is glazed in certain areas so that may be the cause.  If I use the "truing" tool then I get a consistant scratch pattern.  Is there a way to clean the stone grader or should I just purchase a new one?

Thanks in advance

[Herman Trivilino]

Are you sharpening chisels?  The reason I ask is because if you are sharpening a knife whose sides are not parallel, you have to take this wedge angle into account when setting the bevel angle on the Tormek.

Another factor that affects the accuracy of the angle is proper use of the angel setting jig, the Angle Master.  You must have both points in contact with the grindstone.

http://tormek.com/international/en/accessories/other-accessories/wm-200-anglemaster/

As far as the glazing goes on the stone grader, I assume it's on the course side?  Mine has that too but it doesn't seem to affect the performance.  I suppose you could grind away on a cinder block with some water as a lubricant.

[Ken S]

Welcome, Jazzlover.


I had a problem when I first used the anglemaster.  I did not have the gage surface in contact with the grinding wheel. Better light, reading the handbook and trial and error solved the problem.

I suggest you use a black marker on the bevel.  A partial spin of the Tormek wheel or one stroke on your bench stone will show where you are grinding.

I would compensate with the Tormek angle, or, if the difference is slight, use the microbevel one or two click microbevel bump up feature. Read my once burned post in hand tools before considering using a diamond plate to clean the stone grader.  The stone grader would put a lot of wear on a diamond plate.

Standard Tormek technique is not to use a micro bevel when only the Tormek is used.  When final polishing is done with a bench stone, I would set the Mk II for the microbevel.  I would start with the coarse wheel, the use the fine stone grader (both on full bevel).  Use your polishing stone only on the microbevel.

I would try some coarse wet and dry sandpaper with water on a glass plate to clean the stone grader.  However, if you use a microbevel, the rest of the bevel has only a supporting role, and removing scratches there mainly serves one's obsessive compulsive side.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Ken

ps I have the Mk I.  It is OK, but the MK II seems much improved.  Do you use the optional camber roller with plane blades?

[Rob]

I recently watched a review of the Lee Valley honing guide.....looks good enough to eat :-)

[Ken S]

I agree, Rob, the MK II does look impressive.  I believe it is a real improvement over the original, which I have used for numerous years, both in accuracy and in flexibility.

This brings up an oft debated topic of this forum:  Do we do the final honing (polishing) with the leather wheel on the Tormek or with bench stones?

I don't have a good answer for this, however, I do believe that many of us lean toward the comfort of bench stones because we have not taken the time to master the technique of honing with the leather wheel.  For those of us who are more adept turners than I am, it would be like deciding to use a spindle gouge instead of a skew because we have not mastered the skew.  Or, for those of us who lean more toward cabinetmaking, choosing to use a router dovetail jig or power saw to cut dovetails because we have not learned how to cut dovetails with hand tools.

I believe another factor is the intended use of the tool.  Most applications really do not require surgical sharpness.  I believe the truly skilled woodworker should be fluent with different techniques and also know which to apply with different situations and wood.

This gets back to the thoughts expressed in the top thread of this area.  I believe we should designate a chisel and really learn how to sharpen it.  I don't mean a cheap tool with inferior steel.  Pick a good quality chisel and really get it right.  Not only right, but very repeatably right.  Then gradually branch out.

Ken

[Herman Trivilino]

As I've noted before, I think there is a gap between the Tormek grindstone's finest grit and the leather honing wheel.  At a magnification of 40X I see scratches from the grindstone that are too deep to be polished out by the leather honing wheel.

I believe a bit of attention with a bench stone would solve this "problem".

[Jeff Farris]

As I've noted before, I think there is a gap between the Tormek grindstone's finest grit and the leather honing wheel.  At a magnification of 40X I see scratches from the grindstone that are too deep to be polished out by the leather honing wheel.

I believe a bit of attention with a bench stone would solve this "problem".

Then you either did not spend enough time with the fine cut, or didn't have the stone graded properly. The honing compound is capable of polishing out the scratches from the fine cut. If you still see scratches after using the honing wheel, they're from coarser cutting.

[Herman Trivilino]

Is it possible I need a new stone grader?  I have never been able to get the grindstone to that smooth-as-glass condition I've heard about.  No matter how long I spend, I still feel "pimples" on the surface of the grindstone.  I have discovered that I can remove them by wet sanding.

What will the SJ grindstone do for us that can't be done with the SG?

[jeffs55]

I must assume that Jeff Farris is correct, and having said that I say that you need to lay a heavier hand on the grader when switching between the two stone grades. With your knowledge Herman, I really hesitate to say anything but you said there was a problem. I bare down on the grader to just before bogging the wheel and leave it there for several seconds under pressure. Good luck.

[Herman Trivilino]

I bare down on the grader to just before bogging the wheel and leave it there for several seconds under pressure. Good luck.

I've done that for a minute or two.  Maybe longer.

[Jeff Farris]

Have you got a curve cut into the smooth side of the grader yet, Herman? The deeper the curve, the more surface contact you have between the grader and the stone, and the faster it will grade.

The SJ-250 is a super fine abrasive all the way through. The SG-250 is a coarse abrasive underneath an artificially prepared surface. When the fine abrasive is worn away, coarser grains are exposed. This generally isn't a problem with relatively straight blades...they will rarely cut through the fine surface, but shaped tools will.

[Herman Trivilino]

Have you got a curve cut into the smooth side of the grader yet, Herman? The deeper the curve, the more surface contact you have between the grader and the stone, and the faster it will grade.

Yes, and I use it!

The SJ-250 is a super fine abrasive all the way through. The SG-250 is a coarse abrasive underneath an artificially prepared surface. When the fine abrasive is worn away, coarser grains are exposed. This generally isn't a problem with relatively straight blades...they will rarely cut through the fine surface, but shaped tools will.

But isn't the SJ of a significantly finer grade than the fine-graded SG?  I note that honing is not recommended after using the SJ!

[Jeff Farris]

It is finer than the fine graded stone. I don't know why honing would not be recommended. It isn't as fine as the honing compound.

[Ken S]

These posts illustrate what seems to be one of the most common problems for newer users (and older users who have not learned much).  Along with the much discussed basic chisel, I believe a new user should spend some time just using the stone grader.  Ten or twenty minutes going back and forth between coarse and fine should solve the problem forever.  Apply the stone grader to the (wet) stone.  Listen to the sound change.  Feel the moving stone and get to know the smooth and coarse sensations.  At 90 rpm there is no danger to your fingers.

I believe the reluctance to doing this is the (irrational) fear of wearing down one's precious grinding stone.  Whatever minute stone wear from this learning process will be repaired many times in better sharpening.

The Tormek is almost "plug and play".  There is a short learning curve involved in obtaining good results.  The use of the stone grader seems counter intuitive to those of us who learned on oil and water stones.  We changed stones.  A bit of organized practice will soon get us beyond that.

Ken

[tonylumps]

I have had my T7 for 2 years or more.The first couple of months I wore the stone down to 230 MM experimenting and learning how to true the stone. I even went and bought a new stone just in case. Sharpened a lot of metal since then and wore a lot off of the Stone Grader.The stone is now at 220 MM and never took the new Stone out of the box. Learning how to use the Stone Grader and the Leather wheel is the key to the Tormek system I think.