Honing knives on T8 Black

[Dan]

Well, yes! I still have the spacer but...

I was asking how the FVB helps give more access for honing compared to the normal horizontal base whether or not the grinding wheel is on.

I tend to do a batch of all my own kitchen knives maybe 10 or so at a time once a week(ish) and I do not want to take the wheel off and then put it back on for each knife. Hence the honing apart on a separate wheel/machine without any obstacles at all!

I can just grind then hone quickly without any faffing around or changing any set up.

Danny

[tgbto]

I'm 100% with you on this, I even bought a T-8 custom dedicated to honing, so I just setup the FVB for honing and USB for grinding, adjust the projection distances, and I'm down to 3-5 minutes per knife if they've been ground to the preset angle already.

[Dan]

My separate honing wheel for any one interested. if the photo posting works!





Danny

[Dan]

I'm 100% with you on this, I even bought a T-8 custom dedicated to honing, so I just setup the FVB for honing and USB for grinding, adjust the projection distances, and I'm down to 3-5 minutes per knife if they've been ground to the preset angle already.

Exactly!

[aquataur]

Dan,

that bench grinder hack I was thinking of too. In this case you don´t have any obstruction.
This device does not work well in its native mode, wet grinding, since it grinds away from you, and you cannot easily work from the other side, as on the Tormek. But it appears perfect for honing purposes as shown. Congrats.

Maybe the obstruction just occurs on a T-3, which I have.
I recently had a knife in the new symmetric knife jig, and a projection of some 145mm.
IIRC the knife´s handle or my hands or something bulky interfered with the USB´s support rods.
As soon as you raise the USB bar (by using the vertical support of the FVB), the rods disappear downwards and your action range is cleared again.

It wasn´t a particularly long knife either, just a 20cm kitchen knife or shorter.
The FVB rotates the contact point of the knife upwards, which makes for a much more natural working position too.

You have to remove the grinding wheel, or it will be in the way.

[aquataur]

I tend to do a batch of all my own kitchen knives maybe 10 or so at a time once a week(ish) and I do not want to take the wheel off and then put it back on for each knife. Hence the honing apart on a separate wheel/machine without any obstacles at all!

I can just grind then hone quickly without any faffing around or changing any set up.

Dan,
I just recently pondered about similar things.
This disk-swapping is a nuisance. I could live with it, but the real drag is that once you have your wheel beautifully dressed and running true, it´s all up the Swanee once you re-mount it again.

I use the leather wheel for honing, but I also use the rock hard felt wheel afterwards. IMHO the prior polishes the bevel, the latter gives it the real sharp edge.

Those machines you have are actually very cheap (particularly used), and as a matter of fact, they look absolutely identical over here. Probably all from the same Chinese factory.

One could get them used for next to nuthin´ and set one up for stropping and one for deburring, but then... There gotta be a stop to this.
I also use several wheels (a coarse for heavy jobs, a medium for the meat, a fine for polishing and one for the hard stuff), and you´d probably want separate machines for them. But indeed, the pro´s do have separate machines for each task...

Where is the end? I leave it as is and live with it.

[Dan]

  Thanks for your answers.

I am extremely happy with my T8 but there are limitations. The basic set up works extremely well for woodworking tools but achieving the same results with knives (and especially larger ones) is more complicated without some sort of adaptation.
Removing the grinding wheel to hone is just a pain to me.
On the T8 I couldn't find a satisfactory method for honing knives with the grinding wheel on. I asked the question about your technique in the hope that I had missed something   

I decided to use the slow drive on the bench grinder as I never used it for grinding at all. It was just there anyway. I did have to upgrade the machine little to run nicely but it wasn't too difficult. These machines are really not bad but quite poorly made in terms of accuracy.

Still, with a little effort I can now grind and hone quite precisely. I still use the Tormek honing wheel for chisels and planes.

As far as the FVB is concerned, I made one myself which I am very happy with. I must say that I have not had extensive use of it yet. I haven't really found  much need apart from sharpening a very wide cleaver which was difficult to grind on the usual side as the USB was hardly in the slots! I know I could get a longer Tormek USB to help but....
The FVB enables the USB to change its position dramatically - just pull out a bit and the USB is much further away. This allows the same angles for wider blades but much lower in the vertical slots to get a solid position. This means grinding away from you for a change but it works very well too.

Danny

[Ken S]

What is the purpose of the FVB? I learned this while trying to determine if it was possible to hone knives held in the knife jig with the T4. The handbook says no, that knives must be honed freehand with the T4. That is not quite correct. The problem is that the plastic locking knobs do not clear the support bar. For the very thrifty, this can be corrected with a few M6 thread grub screws for around five dollars US. The FVB does the same thing, but much more conveniently. It does this for both the T3/4 and T7/8. After proving that the grub method worked, I decided that the extra cost for an FVB was worthwhile. The FVB raises the knife jig enough to clear the support bar with the plastic locking knibs of the jig and the horizontal sleeves.

Ken

[Sir Amwell]

Hi Dan. I understand your frustrations with removing grinding wheel to hone knives at a controlled angle using a FVB. Your solution using your slow grinder with a leather wheel is good.
When sharpening a lot of knives where some speed and efficiency is required but accuracy is also required, there are other ways.
I rarely use the FVB with leather honing wheel/felt wheel these days.
I set the edge on the T8 at grit 400 or 1000 then remove knife from jig and hone on a WSKO at lowest speed with Tormek honing compound. Usually at +2 degrees and then exact, compensating for the taper of the knife.
A quick hone on a hanging leather strop then gives 90-110 Bess for most mainstream knives, surely sharp enough for my knife abusing customers?
However, for higher end knives and super hard steels ( those tending to a negative burr) I definitely use the FVB for very precise honing. When I am taking the time to do this precisely, removing the grinding wheel to achieve this is no big deal for me.
Or, get another T8 and have it exclusively set up for honing with a FVB?
If your present set up ticks the boxes then stick with it.

[aquataur]

Sir Amwell,

I suspect that freehanding comes with time.
For the moment, I am glad I can get my cutting tools sharp with the crutches. There is enough to comprehend to get it right first hand.

[jimwillsher]

Wolfknives (Feines Werkzeug) in Germany. Unbeatable Price.

Thank you for the tip, I ordered last week from Wolfknives and it has just arrived. Guess what I'll be doing this evening 

[aquataur]

May I suggest you look at the video on the knifegrinders site concerning deburring. This tells you a lot on removing the burr. I bought a felt wheel according to the specs given there and that works much better for me than the strop wheel. Well, to be fair, it is a slightly different field of application. BUT, once you remount it you'll have a hard time to get it running true again... it is Semi-rigid.

[Ken S]

I have a few thoughts. I agree that the Knife Grinders videos are worth watching. Also, I recommend Vadim's deburring book. I have both the print and electronic version. It has a lot of good information, and, as Vadim has passed away, who knows how much longer it will be available.

I have made several spacers out of 5/8" OD plastic pipe. They work adequately well. However, schleifjunkies sells the Mercedes of spacers. It is designed by Alex and solidly machined out of delrin. It is much thicker than other spacers and is a joy to use.

Regarding another machine for honing, a T4 "Custom" is a quality machine for a reasonable price. Without a water trough, it easily holds a 200mm honing or felt wheel. The motor runs at 120 RPM, slightly faster than the T8. Tormek does not market this stripped down version; however, some larger dealers will put one together for you.

Using the original example in this topic of a batch of ten knives, are all ten of them long enough to require removing the grinding wheel? If the removal/replacement time is a real problem, extra knife jigs are less expensive than a second machine. Two or three spare knife jigs would certainly speed things.

Ken

[Dan]

...batch of ten knives, are all ten of them long enough to require removing the grinding wheel?

If using the USB to hone then, yes, definitely. For manual honing of couse it is OK at an angle to avoid the grinding wheel but it is just not so accurate (for me anyway) even with a lot of practice.

...If the removal/replacement time is a real problem, extra knife jigs are less expensive than a second machine. Two or three spare knife jigs would certainly speed things.

Ken

Not sure how extra jigs might speed it up as you still have to mount each knife in a jig regardless. Anyway as I said, I had the other very cheap machine anyway to use. Maybe if one gets a good price on a used T4 or even T3, it would make an affordable useful honing place.
Now, for me with this set up, it is very easy to grind knives and then quickly transfer to the other machine for honing without any changing of wheels and still keeping the knife in the jig to allow for angle accuracy.

Danny

[Sir Amwell]

Hi Dan. Ken is giving good advice. When I am doing a batch of knives I put them all at the same projection on my jigs for a given angle set up on grinding wheel on the T8. Set all those knives ready for honing. Then remove grind wheel and set up for honing on leather wheel with a FVB. Or your chosen honing method. The removal of the grinding wheel becomes less of an issue.
You will need more jigs though. I have 10 of the old svm45 which makes it easy for volume sharpening and with those old adjustable jigs makes it easy to set them all to a predetermined projection measurement.
If you are just occasional sharpening, what is the issue with removing the grinding wheel to enable you to hone?
Am I missing something with your problem?
You already seem to have solved the problem with your independent honing set up.