Honing knives on T8 Black

[Ken S]

I would not wager against that..

I believe we are entering a most interesting period with Tormek.

Ken

[Thy Will Be Done]

I had not seen the post about the MB-102 at the time, but it seems that (and I quote the official website) "guided honing using knife jigs" is now a thing at Tormek... I'd wager we'll see more about it during the advanced honing class 

It's really something that's been needed and the fact that it was not supported basically meant I didn't even use the strop wheel.  Setting the apex is the step of sharpening that is most influenced by a high degree of precision in angle control.  The shaping step of sharpening is not really required to have a high precision as long as you raise a burr along the entire length. 

Of course, the way the Tormek was designed gives you high precision in shaping and low precision in apexing.  This is a serious oversight and it appears that they have fixed this.  The other error is not having a good way to grind on the wheel with the jig/support combo with the edge trailing (ET).  This is a problem of the past now also.  I can actually see a good reason for myself to use ET for SG-250, even.

[Naf]

+1 Colvin FVB

Granted, relative newbie here, but now 2-ish years in (solely knife/axe/spear/harpoon/arrowhead etc sharpening), and I had thought before the first one even arrived the most sensible approach was T8, then aT8 custom for each additional wheel didn't want change (turned out couldn't, easily).

But after started using I immediately realized was wrong... also simply must have another T8 custom dedicated for honing... enter the T8 Black... the seemingly obvious choice for the one machine to run dry/not get banged up, for the next 50 years... beautifully perfect. Everybody know they want one... but yes it always a matter of justification somehow isnit it.

We all have different needs/wants and we're all just learning as we go, right Ken?  "Replacement" knife jigs, now nother new adjustable angle jig, plus new multi base/fvb coming too... Seems like Tormek not mind "the metrics" associated with all us Knife Sharpening nuts.  No offense whatsoever to chisels, however. I simply chose to start with an ulu in a brand new, bent axe jig; my chisels won't run away.

It didn't sound lame at all Jim!  Personally, I would just dampen it and use a jig/"bar", however you can, tohelp keep whatever angle consistent; I sure do, whenever possible.  Keep the diamond wheel and enjoy your Black! I sure have been. Danny, I agree with your much of your thinking here.  But II really could use a few more of the "old" knife jigs too!  For me, it simply seemed like keeping the machines identical would be the least recurring work.

[Ken S]

My first thought with my T8 Black was to use it lightly, trying to "preserve the collectible value". I soon abandoned that plan. The Tormek is designed to be a working machine, not a shelf princess. My present plan is to use it as a dedicated machine set up for my woodturning tools with either my SB-250 or DF-250 and the composite honing wheel. I certainly won't be around in fifty years. I believe a reasonable program to maintain its value will be good housekeeping including regular recommended regreasing of the nylon bushings and keeping it covered. The future owner will acquire a "carefully used" machine instead of a "mint condition" machine.

While some YouTubers recommend setting up multiple Tormek's, I have never seen Tormek recommend having multiple machines. Nor have I seen Tormek recommend having multiple knife jigs. I am not saying that multiple machines or jigs will not increase efficiency for larger volume sharpening, only that this is not a strategy used by Tormek to sell more equipment. I believe that Torgny Jansson must have been a thrifty man, conscious of his customers' money. Supporting my belief is the Tormek tradition of supplying parts for very old machines. There are many machines still in regular service which are over twenty years old.

In my opinion, the new jigs and accessories represent Tormek's commitment to ongoing innovation. No one is forced to keep up with the "latest and greatest". I hope and believe that this tradition of innovation will continue.

ken

[Thy Will Be Done]

My first thought with my T8 Black was to use it lightly, trying to "preserve the collectible value". I soon abandoned that plan. The Tormek is designed to be a working machine, not a shelf princess. My present plan is to use it as a dedicated machine set up for my woodturning tools with either my SB-250 or DF-250 and the composite honing wheel. I certainly won't be around in fifty years. I believe a reasonable program to maintain its value will be good housekeeping including regular recommended regreasing of the nylon bushings and keeping it covered. The future owner will acquire a "carefully used" machine instead of a "mint condition" machine.

While some YouTubers recommend setting up multiple Tormek's, I have never seen Tormek recommend having multiple machines. Nor have I seen Tormek recommend having multiple knife jigs. I am not saying that multiple machines or jigs will not increase efficiency for larger volume sharpening, only that this is not a strategy used by Tormek to sell more equipment. I believe that Torgny Jansson must have been a thrifty man, conscious of his customers' money. Supporting my belief is the Tormek tradition of supplying parts for very old machines. There are many machines still in regular service which are over twenty years old.

In my opinion, the new jigs and accessories represent Tormek's commitment to ongoing innovation. No one is forced to keep up with the "latest and greatest". I hope and believe that this tradition of innovation will continue.

ken

How often do they recommend regreasing the shaft on the T8?  I've been meaning to do this to mine as I've had it now for about a year and while it hasn't been run extremely high hours it has been used well.

[Ken S]

Once a year is the standard recommendation.

Ken

[Ken S]

I also made a FVB which works perfectly although I still couldn't get enough space for honing knives at precise angles. I find the Grinding wheel is still in the way.

This is why one should keep the spacer that comes with a Tormek, or buy/build one. A piece of 20mm PVC pipe cut at the proper width (50mm ?) works a charm. This way you can replace the grinding wheel with the spacer when honing long knives.

I normally prefer not to recommend third party accessories on the forum. However, I will make an exception in this case. Schleifjunkies sells a spacer designed by Alex which is the Mercedes of spacers. It is machined of delrin and much thicker than the originals. It is a joy to use. Tormek chooses not to make spacers available as spare parts. Here is a link:

https://schleifjunkies.de/en/product/spacer-for-drive-shaft-
from-alex/

Ken

[aquataur]

My separate honing wheel for any one interested. if the photo posting works!

Dan,

if you are monitoring this thread...

I finally got around to do an almost identical thing.
I made my own wheel. I did not like the way Schleifjunkies made the rollover.
The body is made of 30mm birch plywood (or beech, can´t remember), leather belt was bought and glued with fast curing and waterproof wood glue. This is a proven method for glueing Tolex. I spared the last centimeters out and finalized those with contact glue. The wheel is directional because of the crossover. As you can see, the meat side is outside.
On the picture, the wheel is virgin.

The holding bracket is made of cross-braced hardwood. Mounting is done with rampa inserts in case it turns out that the position needs to be optimized.

From a financial perspective, it is not worth to d.i.y., no way.
Note that I disabled the dry wheel part.

I am going to score another one of those machines (they are useless otherwise) and set up my felt wheel.

It is total luxury to not have to remove wheels all the time, because you ain´t never get them running as steady as they were before without a rigmarole.

[Dan]

Aquateur,
Well done. It makes such a difference for knife sharpening, I never use the Tormek honing side for knives now. It is so convenient, quick and accurate to just set the distance to the grinding wheel and the honing wheel using Calcapp.

I did consider making a wheel too but really the price for a quality ready made wheel from Shleifjunkies was excellent (as was the service too) compared to doing it all myself. I did, of course, have to fashion a suitable support for the USB and that was enough work already.

Danny

[aquataur]

Yes indeed, making a wheel is a luxury.
The wheel from Hanns is absolutely competitive (apart from the fact that he is the only one who sells such a thing to my knowing ) and top notch.

Despite the fact that I got the specs as tight as possible (using generic tools), there is always a hair of play on the bore and the thing inevitably wobbles.

I observed the same thing with most grinding wheels. I believe it is not so easy to get a bore done to very tight specs, maybe the material shrinks or whatever.

This is why most sources for dry wheels sell them with bigger bores, say 32mm. It is a breeze to have a very tight fitting insert made on a 3D printer.

Maybe Tormek and all aftermarket guys should consider this.

But back to the wooden wheel. I did the usual fandango and re-opened the wheel, spun it and tightened it again - in vain.

Finally I got a piece of wood and gave the wheel a slight kick when the peak came round, and after two or three trials, it runs quiet. I will never open it again 

I also observed that comparably large flanges don´t help much for centering - to my astonishment.
Maybe blotters would?

[Sylwester]

... and I am struggling to get knives really sharp.

I am sharpening to 15 degrees, and that seems okay. But when I use the composite wheel I must be doing it wrong.

Basic questions. Should I use the tool jig or hold freehand? And should I have the knife flat on the wheel to remove the burr or should I try to also place it at 15 degrees, which is really hard when handholding.

Looks Jim already got answers (15 degree while honing and precission via FVB) for his problem but there can be more problems that prevents from having "really sharp".


For example: Jim got Black so was using diamond wheel 600 and natural tendency with new machine is to try cheap knives first, just in case   But diamonds do not work well with soft steel - instead of sharpening diamonds tear off parts of metal so nice edge is not forming and no sharpness in progress.


Dimonds need period of breaking before getting it's own default grit and are more coarse before that. I'm not sure in what unit Tormek names dimonds - grit, mesh, microns or EU/JP/US standard but "if you want just one grit then take 600" ("...get 1000 in Japan" ) do not work for good sharpness, IMO. So 600 with 2000 honing can be not ideal, especially on unprofiled knives.


And is there "really sharp" standard ? Tomato slicing perfection is usually good indicator of sharpness   But Tormek have grit progression like: black stone 220, DC 360, SG ~220 - ~1000 (but ~600 natural ?), DF 600, DE 1000, compound honing 2000, leather honing 3000 and JS 4000. So 8000 is missing for "razor sharp". And 8k is usually max for good cutting edge, 10k and 16k can have problems with starting slice on tomatoes


I personally like compound honing (2000) becouse it allows to sharpen more then SG or diamonds but it is less then traditional leather can do. Not to mention JS.


HTH