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#21

General Tormek Questions / Re: Burr removal.....the bane ...

Last post by Royale - May 01, 2026, 04:24:09 PM

Once I raise a burr on my last grindstone used, I make a few light alternating passes on both sides of the blade to weaken the burr.

I use the composite wheel on most knives, and I strop at sharpening angle the majority of the time. I start with the burr side up, make about 10 passes, before flipping the knife to burr side down, and another 10 passes.

I put in about 20 passes each side before I start alternating passes for about 10 passes each side.

Finally, I'd raise the stropping angle by about 1 degree, do about 10 alternating passes on each side, and later clean up the edge with 99% IPA before doing any sort of inspection/testing.

I notice the composite wheel tends to leave a bit of material on the cutting edge, so sometimes the roughness I feel isn't the burr, but just rubber and aluminium oxide still stuck on.

#22

Knife Sharpening / Re: A new resource

Last post by Brock O Lee - May 01, 2026, 12:42:39 PM

Thanks for sharing!

Interesting reading, and much respect for the effort and financial commitment to produce this report. I filed it for future reference.

A few things caught my attention regarding the BESS results:
1. I am surprised that the sharpened blades did not achieve sub-100 BESS scores? Except for one outlier in the raw results.

2. The report mentions that sub-130 BESS indicates a fully deburred edge? I remember Wootz considered sub-100 BESS to be fully deburred. He routinely achieved much lower than that, using the deburring techniques mentioned in the report.

However, I am aware that BESS scores are dependent on test technique and test media (clips vs spool), so that might explain the differences.

I bring this up as hobbyist, and from my own experience, my 100+ BESS edges often have room for improvement. I find that 70-80 BESS scores are very achievable on a Tormek and Edge Pro (after deburring steps). I have even managed mid-50's on a few occasions, so the high BESS numbers in the report seems odd.

For context, this edge was from the Edge Pro, at 16 dps, finished on 1000 grit diamond, stropped on 1 micron diamond spray on basswood. The Spyderco Native Chief in CPM-REX-45 in the background had the same treatment and scored 58.

#23

Knife Sharpening / Re: How to achieve less than 1...

Last post by Brock O Lee - May 01, 2026, 12:18:22 AM

I have found that it is much easier to get low BESS scores when I sharpen at low angles (sub-15 dps). In my experience diamond stones tend to produce lower scores than the SG-250, and higher grit finishes (1000+) produce lower scores than lower grit finishes.

Just to make sure : when you talk about lower scores, do you mean lower BESS number or lower sharpness ?

I meant lower BESS scores.

To rephrase, I've noticed that the SE-250 (extra fine diamond wheel) gives me lower BESS scores (sharper edge) than the SG-250 (standard stone wheel), on the same kitchen knife (Spyderco MBS-26 steel similar to VG10), at the same angle, using the same technique.

I have not experimented enough to say this is definitive. At the moment I suspect it could be due to grit differences, or that one abrasive cuts a certain steel cleaner than the other, or something else?

That is going deep into the weeds... Take it as one data point from "a guy in his garage seeing a thing". 🙂

#24

Knife Sharpening / A new resource

Last post by Ken S - April 30, 2026, 07:30:11 PM

I like to encourage work by forum members, especially work which stays within the forum philosophy of being non commercial. Forum member, Eric Ho, has researched and produced a PDF which falls within these guidelines.

I had some initial reservations, namely that Eric does not sharpen presently with a Tormek. However, he does not write negatively about the Tormek. He also compares six different sharpeners and sharpening methods. One of these is our late, well respected member, Wootz  (Vadim Kriachuk of Knife Grinders Australia). Wootz was a longtime innovative Tormek user.

Eric included several prelated areas which I found interesting.  I was fascinated with his thoughts on CATRA testing, which tests longer sections of
a knife blade. He supports these thoughts with what I would consider a substantial investment in money,  test knives, and in actually sending these knives to CATRA for expensive testing.

I do not believe I will ever spend the money to actually send any knives to CATRA for testing, although Eric did a good job of explaining the testing procedure. I was glad to read about the testing.q

Eric discusses four factors in how long knives remain sharp, the most important being the bevel angle. His coverage seems fair and balanced, something I appreciate.

Eric's PDF is 29 pages, a very workable length. I have it loaded on my ipad and printed out. It is an interesting addition to my sharpening library.!     

Download link: https://be-sharp.io/2026/01/09/catra-testing-cutting-edge-retention-bess-knife-grinders-australia/

Ken

#25

General Tormek Questions / Re: Good Light

Last post by Rossy66 - April 30, 2026, 07:01:03 PM

I was lucky to find this, it's classified as a reading light but it's led with three colors and flexible.  It's perfect for sharpening.

#26

Knife Sharpening / Re: How to achieve less than 1...

Last post by tgbto - April 30, 2026, 02:49:17 PM

I have found that it is much easier to get low BESS scores when I sharpen at low angles (sub-15 dps). In my experience diamond stones tend to produce lower scores than the SG-250, and higher grit finishes (1000+) produce lower scores than lower grit finishes.

Just to make sure : when you talk about lower scores, do you mean lower BESS number or lower sharpness ?

I used to chase BESS scores initially. It is a good tool to measure progress while you develop a technique. After a while I got too lazy to fire up the BESS tester, but I still do occasionally. In my experience you quickly get a feel for a sharp burr-free edge by how effortlessly it glides through phone book or cigarette paper, you don't even need to test.

I wholeheartedly agree, once you get comfortable with the process, there is little need for systematic BESS testing. When I get a new, exotic steel I usually test it before/After.  Plus high BESS does not necessarily translate to higher edge retention, so I use it only as a reference to see if a given sharpening is consistent with the lot, if I have a doubt.

Although this may be the case in some instances, but for me, there have been times that I'm finishing off with the above numbers, but still running the knife through my microscope and it clearly shows no burr is present.

In my experience some steels never get under 130 BESS. I have a few french Sabatier knives that won't get under 150, 130 at the very best, no matter what. And they get back to a lofty 250 after a few uses in the kitchen. Those I don't trust to care for knives get to use them, but my 8 y.o. son uses my japanese knives.

Also, I've experienced some situations (edge leading with SJ-250, on soft steels) where there is still a layer of very soft steel at the apex of the edge. It is however invisible under a typical optical microscope.

#27

General Tormek Questions / Re: Burr removal.....the bane ...

Last post by Brock O Lee - April 29, 2026, 11:04:52 PM

That sounds like a massive burr, when it is visible as you hone...

I'd suggest that you will likely get better end results when you minimise the size of the burr on the stones, with very light alternating passes before you deburr/hone. I'd say if you can see a burr with the naked eye at arms length under normal shop lightling it is likely too large.

When I hone free hand on the leather wheel, I find this to be useful to find the approximate angle to hone at
- start at a shallow angle, so that you contact the bevel shoulder, not the apex.
- increase the angle until you make full contact with the bevel on the wheel. The contact feels smooth at this stage.
- increase the angle a fraction to hone the very apex. Contact will feel less smooth at this stage.
- the steps above take only a second or two.

Err on the side of very light pressure and too shallow angle, rather than too much pressure and too steep angle. It helps to avoid rounding the apex. You can always come back for another pass at a slightly steeper angle if you did not get the desired result the first time.

As a side note, I do not like the composite rubber wheel much for deburring. Wootz estimated the embedded grit size to be +-30 micron, if I remember correctly. This is very large. In comparison, alu oxide (and Tormek compound) grit is more like 3 micron. To put that into perspective, a very sharp edge has an apex radius of less than 1 micron.

#28

Knife Sharpening / Re: How to achieve less than 1...

Last post by Columbo - April 29, 2026, 10:56:45 PM

Just to add my pennies worth. I think Bess scores in the range of 150 (130/140/150/160/170) indicate that the burr has not been completely removed.

Although this may be the case in some instances, but for me, there have been times that I'm finishing off with the above numbers, but still running the knife through my microscope and it clearly shows no burr is present.

But right, but I also must add like the gentleman in Australia Baz who uses a kangaroo tail as the end process. I too can definitely drop the numbers by 30 or 40 points by carefully maintaining an angle and stropping the tail up and down wow glued to a 2 inch piece of hardwood.

#29

Knife Sharpening / Re: How to sharpen the inline ...

Last post by Rossy66 - April 29, 2026, 05:26:15 PM

Looks amazing but what a bizarre looking edge   

#30

General Tormek Questions / Re: Burr removal.....the bane ...

Last post by Rossy66 - April 29, 2026, 04:36:30 PM

It may be due to the steel used in some less expensive knives. These knives are extremely hard to sharpen to a fine edge; the burr essentially changes sides when you try and hone it.

Agree. In my experience "cheap knives" often means:
- non-ideal steel chemistry and/or
- non-ideal heat treatment protocols and/or
- non-ideal hardened steel structure at the edge and/or
- lower than ideal hardness (sub 60 HRC).

This all shows up at the burr. These burrs tend to be soft and "gummy", flopping from side-to-side, refusing to cut off cleanly. This results in incomplete deburring, sub-par fine edge and bad edge longevity.

It is striking how easily properly heat treated but hard pocket-knife steels deburr in comparison. Steels like CPM-SPY27 (@62 HRC), CPM-Magnacut (@64 HRC), CPM-15V (@67 HRC) etc. Almost no effort required.

I have noticed that when controlled honing, sometimes I see super fine bits of metal flying off the edge which I assume is part of the burr but I don't see that on all knives I sharpen so I have been relying on pulling the edge across my nail which seems to work most of the time.