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. . . . because I do not have Steve book or DVD, I would like ask you, whether there exist some web page where the flat platform concept is described.

I think Herman's video provides a pretty thorough introduction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcWAkQmoU8c

~Doug

It may actually be easier and faster to use the Angle Master. The laser line may be more precise if that's an issue.

Easier and faster to use the Angle Master to repeatedly, individually, set the bevel angles of successive knives than to set the laser level (and/or a version of your platform jig) once for everything-at-18-degrees (or something like that -- most kitchen knives)?

I think we might have a disconnect here, cuz I don't understand how that could be.  What did I miss?   

  ~Doug

Very creative/useful/helpful/instructive, Ken.  Thanks!

The photograph below shows, how difficult it is to maintain consistent bevel angle along the entire length of the blade. The knife is correctly mounted into knife jig. This ensures the same bevel angle for the straight part of the blade and for the tip. The belly of the pivoted knife meets the stone beyond the laser line. This means that the belly will have slightly smaller edge angle than the rest of the blade.

(Excellent photo illustration here.  Great work, Jan!)

In Ken's terminology, to maintain consistent bevel angle, we would need "a bridge between freehand and jigged sharpening".

Exactly.

I think combining the laser line with a version of Herman's platform "jig" -- a version set up for grinding off the edge -- may be one way to build such a bridge.

. . . I can also see where the regular flat platform jig could be fitted with a thicker platform. (approximately 1/12" or 40mm). That would bring the platform up to the level Steve uses for his freehand technique. It would present a flat (level) platform at the 1 1/2" marked distance from the top dead center mark on the grinding wheel.

Yes.  This is exactly what I've been playing with.

I don't really see this arrangement as a "training wheels" procedure, Ken.  Mostly, that's because I don't think very many people would ever get to the point of grinding as accurate a bevel fully freehand as could be produced using a tool rest and a laser guide line.  Certainly not in our farmers market scenario, with endless variations in knife size and pattern and at least a couple of different primary bevels needed routinely.  I know some sharpeners who tend to think they are as accurate freehand as when jigged, but they are almost always wrong about that.

I think the SVD-110 tool rest is probably the most appropriate base for this.  I've ordered a spare to dedicate to the research.

Now, we need a height-adjustable version of Herman's tool rest knife jig.

Ken, the mystery text is just leftover "greeking" (in Latin) from the default placeholder page when I activated the website.  See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greeking.

~Doug

Excellent, Jan!

Your photos make clear an idea that occurred to me recently:  that laser line, once it's positioned at the right spot on the wheel, is something of a real-time knife-setting template/positioning guide for Herman's jig.

I've been avoiding setting up a web site for sharpening, but needing a space to host the photos I wanted to share here, I was forced to remember.  I just posted a couple to the waiting skeleton of the site:

http://www.sharpoperator.com/

Now I'll actually have to work on it.   

No, it's not sufficient by itself, Herman.

But, if I have a projected guideline at a point on the grindstone where holding the knife in a position that naturally feels "level" to me produces a bevel angle of around 18 degrees, say . . . it's a couple of good-sized steps toward sufficiency.   

I did the same thing Jan did, yesterday.  It was easier for me because I had the Bosch laser level to which I posted a link.  Universal support in vertical position, slide on SVD-110 tool rest, clamp laser level to tool rest and adjust.  Kinda overkill for the application, of course, and it would be more elegant to have a focusable laser with an "angle assistant" mounting, but this one puts a very handy, seriously bright line or lines on the grindstone.

I have photos, but I see I need to put them on a server somewhere to share here.  I'll get on that.

I like the laser line.  My old eyes really like it.  It's higher tech than I prefer, but it may be OK to use a bit of high tech to sharpen hand tool edges on a slow wet grinder.   

I'll let someone else play with laser development.  I want to take the one I have and pair it with Herman's knife jig (with a little more clearance between the jig and the stone).

To be clear, the scenario I'm thinking of is essentially farmers market sharpening and variations on that theme.  In the "hybrid" versions of that scenario, as taught by Steve and discussed above by Ken, the Tormek's job might be put a primary bevel on (overwhelmingly) working kitchen knives.  We have to move right along, here, so we won't refine or hone on the Tormek.  Our primary bevel needs to be compatible with the next steps and meet our standards for accuracy and consistency.

I'd like to see if some combination of freehanding and the assistance of aids such as your platform style knife jig and projected laser lines on the stone can produce acceptable and reliable results.

~Doug

July 28 was the official birth of the SME Sharpening School Video. Born breach 27 days after its due date, the first copies went into the mail Tuesday.

The official release version arrived here today, Steve.  Thanks!

  ~Doug

 It's there, Ken.

I think it's used a bit more loosely than this definition.  If I have to "fiddle" with it, it's fiddly whether it's small or not.


http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/fiddly

fiddly
adjective UK    US    /ˈfɪd.li/ UK informal       

› difficult to do because the parts involved are small:

Repairing a watch is a very fiddly job.
I hate painting the fiddly bits in the corner.

_and_


fiddle (about) with sth)
— phrasal verb with fiddle UK    US    /ˈfɪd.l̩/ verb
       
› to make small changes to something to try to make it work:

Stop fiddling about with your hair - it looks fine.

Someone's been fiddling around with my computer!


› to touch or move things with your fingers because you are nervous or bored:

He was just fiddling around with the things on his desk.

The Bobs of the forum are one of the target groups for this discussion. For the beginning businesses like Bob's, the main benefit is efficiency. If a more efficient technique allows Bob to sharpen more knives on a Saturday, while still maintaining his very high standards, the business will be more profitable and have a better chance of growing.These techniques are not for cutting corners. They are for delivering a high standard of quality in a more efficient manner.

It can hardly be said better than that.

And I think it's quite possible that the jigs under development in this discussion, and/or a laser line on that 90 rpm stone, might make a big difference to Bob, and to me, among many others.  As I've said, fiddly per-knife setup is a major issue for anyone considering using the Tormek to sharpen knives commercially.

  ~Doug

Brilliant thread!  Great ideas and sharp thinking, all of you.

Jan said: "Red cross hair laser with adjustable focusing would be perfect solution for our experiments."

It sure would.  And it sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

Investigating . . .

  ~Doug

P.S. A quick look at Google and Amazon suggests there are lots of possibilities with off-the-shelf stuff.  For example:

http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-GLL-Self-Leveling-Cross-Line-Laser/dp/B00NQUJ2AK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1438214081&sr=8-1&keywords=bosch+gll2


Bosch GLL 2 Self-Leveling Cross-Line Laser Level with Mount
by Bosch

Price:   $79.00 & FREE Shipping. Details

In Stock.

Ships from and sold by Amazon.com. Gift-wrap available.

Horizontal and vertical line modes - projects two lines independently or together for a wide array of level and/or alignment applications

One button operation makes it easy select between horizontal, vertical, and cross line modes or turn the tool on/off

Flexible mounting device conveniently clamps to multiple surfaces for quick and easy setup

Smart pendulum leveling system - self-levels, senses and indicates out-of level condition; switch slider to lock for transport

Point well taken, Herman.

Yes, point well taken.

Thanks for reminding me to explore that alternative approach to knife sharpening on the Tormek, Herman.

This process would be easier if we had a solid industrial arts background from our school days.

Indeed.  And I really think it should be part of elementary & secondary education for most kids.

Having been steered toward "academic" classes throughout school, it was rather a shock to the system to discover that I had no idea how to competently read a ruler, much less make a square cut with a handsaw, when I found myself needing to earn a living as an apprentice carpenter.  Luckily, there were skilled and generous people around to help me learn before I starved. ;^)

I know we now live in a society where all kids are supposed to grow up to be doctors, lawyers and investment bankers, but the world doesn't really work that way and it would be a good idea for a little exposure to tool using (which differentiates us from most other species) to be part of our basic training for youth.

I'm following your progress with interest, Ken.

The Tormek is, by far, my favorite powered knife-sharpening machine, but per-knife setup tends to be slow and fiddly.  Your knife setting jig, Steve's procedural approach, etc. are very helpful for those who need or want to sharpen many knives quickly and accurately.

  ~Doug

The last sentence below the figure should read: "Raise and pivot the knife handle when grinding the tip of the knife."

Exactly.

I think your English is coming along just fine, Jan!   

". . .  the point about pivoting the knife as well as lifting the handle."

Yup.  And this point is one that has been flubbed a bit by more than one demonstrator/instructor.  Steve does the best job I've seen of describing and demonstrating the technique required to produce a uniform bevel.