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Isn't it surprising that he said that the grinding direction doesn't matter?

In my experience, the grinding direction doesn't matter (much) in terms of final sharpness. There are some knives, mostly of very soft steel, where sharpening edge-trailing will indeed form a much longer, foil-like burr. However, these steels are so soft that the foil burr will be removed easily anyway ... and edge retention will be bad either way.

That being said, it might be hard to tell from sound and feel alone when you're done honing a foil burr. I'm not sure it takes much longer though.

I also found that grinding edge-leading with the SJ stone might give the impression that there is no burr, when there actually is a line of well-aligned plastified steel just at the edge.

Eventually, I didn't find much of a difference in terms of edge retention between edge-leading and edge-trailing.

Maybe it's splitting hairs in the context?

Or whittling hair ? I don't know if it was intentional, but nice one anyway 

Thanks for interesting post! Yes for me as booth noob and hobbyist there are a lot of variables, like how different steel behaves in one application.

I remember when I've had my T4 for a couple of months and that I kind of saw myself as some kind of sharpening guru..

For hobbyist it's always the risk falling down that famous rabbit hole.

Haha I see now that the example wasn't the best. There are filet knives that are worse were the recurve starts further down the blade.

I think it's really annoying to sharpen many filet knives, the ones that has a recurve, like the one below. I have old wheels that I have rounded for knifes like this. But is there a reason for this shape on (some) filet knives?

My guess is that the negative curve is there for aesthetics and that the often flexible blade needs some support, which a straight blade wouldn't give?

This must be an issue for other sharpening scenarios and not only on Tormek. I have tormeks diamond wheels and want best possible sharpness on filet knives for obvious reasons.

Isn't it surprising that he said that the grinding direction doesn't matter? I've been told that the direction against the edge gives shorter burr that's easier to remove, rather than longer burr on gets from grinding away from the edge. Maybe it's splitting hairs in the context?

I have one of theses Mora carving knifes, they are a joy to use and extremely sharp when new, way sharper than the ordinary Moras, also very easy to sharpen and maintain.

Nice video, thanks!

One overlooked solution is to make the final pass or two with your DF-250 with VERY light pressure. This is demonstrated in the online class covering the T2, but can be applied to any Tormek. This is very fast, not involving any wheel changing. It is also very cost efficient, as no extra expense is involved. It gently transfers the initial honing from the leather wheel to the grinding wheel.

Ken

Thats interesting, since I read somewhere that a quick light pressure pass on df-250 would minimize the burr. Maybe it was one of your posts in fact. It's a part of my routine however.

I think many users worry unnecessarily about consuming the SG-250. When I have knives that need more material removed I do not hesitate in using the coarse side of the grading stone. I also in the camp that trues the stone fairly often rather than letting it go and removing a lot of material less often. Unless you are using a dial indicator to measure runout it is often hard to detect an out of round condition.

When chasing the sharpest edge I personally look at whose knife it is that I am sharpening. It is not too difficult to obtain an edge that is better than almost every out of the box knife. This can be achieved with the SG-250 and leather wheel. For my knives and a couple of customers I will use a second leather wheel with 1µ diamonds. I also look at the time required to change wheels to a progressively finer grit when doing multiple knives when few appreciate the knifes sharpness beyond out of the box.

Since I got the diamond wheels I have found new use of the SG-wheels. But when I only had the original wheels. I also trued sg-250 often and many times to make sg-250 aggressive and to remove steel as quick as possible. I sharpen a bit of axes for people, sometimes I true before and after.

So it makes sense, I do have two SG-250 one that I true often and I got a very good deal on two diamond wheels and then I had already invested in a new SG-250, which I now use as final step.

Many times DE-250 (grit 600) is the final step

The DE is 1000 grit.

Is there any practical or theoretical pros with using diamond (or CBN) as the last step of sharpening super steel's like m390, rather than traditional aluminium oxide stone?

Your abrasive needs to be harder (MOHS) than your steel or you will simply glaze your wheel. This is the process whereby the sharpening process rounds over your grit and leaves it blunt, thus making the wheel less effective and deforming rather than scratching the steel. I am assuming that you are dressing the SG otherwise you are leaving it glazed and not working efficiently.

I meant DF-250. I do not own EF-250.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. But do you mean that aluminum oxide won't cut mentioned steels? Thats not my experience. In this case, and since I have no way to measure the results, like Bess device, it is easy to see that that Sg-250 which never been dressed other the finest grit possible get gives the bevel a very different finish, rather than using DF-250 as the final stone. What I don't know is if the SG-250 as described actually makes the knife sharper or gives it better edge retention.

My philosophy is to use just enough steps and as few passes as possible, thinking to many passes and steps grit-wise also can lead to errors that gives a worse result.


Maybe I am missing something or using wrong terms in my fist post.

This thread a bit splitting hairs, since the results I get DC and DF-250 with any steel I have sharpen this far gives me fantastic results and on very short time.

Hi all,

I have two Tormek diamond wheels, course and fine. I also have SG-250 wheel which has never been graded course, so it still has the 250 mm dimension since I only use it as the final step after the diamond wheels, used as Tormek Japanese water stone, if you will, but with courser grit.

Many times DE-250 (grit 600) is the final step, this give me good enough result.

Wanted to ask you all if you see any reason to have the 1200 grit diamond wheel, as long as my SG-wheel keep it's dimension but also remains true?

To my eyes the result from SG-250 (graded very fine, with a finer grit than the fine git side of the Tormek grading stone) gives a beautiful edge to finalize on my leather wheels.

Is there any practical or theoretical pros with using diamond (or CBN) as the last step of sharpening super steel's like m390, rather than traditional aluminium oxide stone?

I I'm aware that deburring on diamond can give high vanadium steels better edge retention.

Thanks!

I stripped my KS-123 down, cleaned it thoroughly, and just applied a wee bit of PTFE grease on the pivot area. So far after a few months of daily use, it's been pretty smooth.

I did exactly this, with success.

I'm gonna guess you're thinking of how to economise the use of your ACC-150 solution?

Whenever I clean my diamond grindstones in my ultrasonic cleaner with just water and dish soap, I rinse them with water to remove all soap.

Then I mount the grindstone on my T8 and spin them for a bit in the trough filled with the ACC-150 solution. I do it just to coat it with the solution, then I let it drip dry before storing it.

If you're drying off your grindstone after using just water, you'll need to access the hollow section under the plastic cover, and that is where corrosion may form without you knowing.

Also, if you're using just water, you roll the dice if you encounter knife steel that flash rusts quickly, getting embedded in your grindstone and causing rust spots all over, no matter how fast you dry it after.

hello Royale! Not so much the economy, but rather the hassle of minding the water.

You're totally right, first I thought of removing the plastic sides so I could make sure it was dry, but yesterday I found a container that fits the wheel in which I rinse the wheel for a moment after each use. I believe I got the idea from a another post you wrote some time ago.



Thanks!

Maybe a stupid question, but has anyone tried using diamond wheels without the agent and after each sharpening session make sure to dry the wheels with a hairdryer and towel?

Old thread and I know Vadim is not with us anymore, which is very sad.

I have question. I'm about to sharpen a M398 knife and wonder if a final strop with PA-70 will do more damage than good after using my other leather wheel with 5 micron diamond paste?

Thinking PA-70 is finer than 5 micron.

Thanks

Thanks to Royale I canceled the order, it didn't make sense.

Thank you Royale, that is really useful info!

I'll sleep on it and get black when I know.

Funny thread!

I have all 3 diamond grindstones for my sharpening business.

I typically use the DC-250 (360G) to reshape/reprofile blades, and sharpen with the DF-250 (600G). Only when the customer wants a finer edge (and willing to pay more), do I use the DE-250 (1200G)

From personal experience... Going from the DC-250 to DE-250 is going to add a lot of time to your sharpening. Some factors to be considered are hardness of the steel, and what level of sharpness you're trying to achieve.

I spend most of the time at the DC-250, lesser time with the DF-250, and the least time with the DE-250.

So it's definitely a possibility, but the time take  is going to be hella long.

Great input, thanks!
Maybe I should replace the DE for for an DE. For how long have you owned the DC, does it keep its 360 grit spec well since it was broken in?

I guess I was thinking that I could use the DE to get rid of most om the burr from DC, and that I could live with the scratch pattern DF-250 otherwise would have lessened.

Also on more traditional and high carbide knives, rather than m390, s30v, my plan was to use SG-250 as course as possible as first step and than DE before honing.

But I guess I'll end up with the DF as well.

Hello all,

I got a good deal on these two Tormek diamond wheels and do mostly knife sharpening for myself, friends and colleagues.

While waiting for the wheels I thought I'd ask here if anyone has experience skipping DF (fine) the stone between the two? I know the scratch pattern differs from the original stone, with which I often go from course to the leather wheel.

I have owned DF (400 grit) once and found it very effective and thought I'd try jumping from 360 (DC) to EF which I believe is 1000 grit, before going all in on three wheels.

Much interested in your thoughts on this.

Cheers!