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The buildup is not much of a problem if you clean your SJ wheel frequently. I use Rust Erasers, often several times per knife. If you clean off the metal buildup very often the gunk comes off quickly and easily because it hasn't yet embedded into the surface of the wheel. It only takes 20-30 seconds to have a nearly clean wheel again and it does it's job better also.

Personally, I like polished edges MUCH better that toothy ones, except when it comes to slicing tomatoes and other such things. I have somewhere around 150 to 200 knives and once they are sharp enough (cut paper cleanly, shave and BESS test under about 150) I then start using my SJ200 Japanese Water Wheel (I have a T4) on them to see what happens.

I have learned that the Japanese Water Wheel (JWW) can make a knife look beautiful and little or no effect on it level of sharpness. However, with a little practice and patience the JWW can make a knife significantly sharper that it would otherwise be. For instance, I have knives that BESSed at about 130-150, and after using the JWW they end up having BESS scores around 75-90, and no further deburring is needed after the JWW.

This is when the idea of toothy edges with polished bevels came to me. Why could a knife not have both? What would prevent someone for taking a knife with a beautiful polished bevel and put a toothy edge on it? I haven't yet figured out the best technique for creating the toothy edge, but I am sure it would not be difficult to do.

I don't know if there is any practical reason to do this. Also, it is possible that people have been doing this for thousands of years, and I, in my ignorance did not know it. What do you think?

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Re:Highly polished bevel with a toothy microbevel.
« Reply #13 on: Today at 12:38:49 am »
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I am experimenting with putting a toothy microbevel (edge) on a bevel polished up on a SJ (4000) wheel. This should be the best of both worlds: a beautiful bevel with an edge that cuts tomato skins cleanly.

Do this by:
Step1: Polish the bevel to a high shine with a 4000 grit Japanese Water Wheel.
Step 2: Establish a microbevel: Make the edge toothy by sharpening just the edge of the polished bevel with a coarse stone like the original 220 grit Tormek wheel. This will likely require using the marker method and making one or two light passes on each side. Most likely little or no deburring will be needed.
Step 3: Test results.
Step 4: Repeat and refine as needed.

[light]

I am experimenting with putting a toothy microbevel (edge) on a bevel polished up on a SJ (4000) wheel. This should be the best of both worlds: a beautiful bevel with an edge that cuts tomato skins cleanly.

Do this by:
Step1: Polish the bevel to a high shine with a 4000 grit Japanese Water Wheel.
Step 2: Establish a microbevel: Make the edge toothy by sharpening just the edge of the polished bevel with a coarse stone like the original 220 grit Tormek wheel. This will likely require using the marker method and making one or two light passes on each side. Most likely little or no be burring will be needed.
Step 3: Test results.
Step 4: Repeat and refine as needed.

To RickKrung,
     The Sabitoru Rust Erasers are amazing. They are very gentle on the JWW and are VERY fast as well. I have found that cleaning every few minutes, before the metal particles get imbedded in the stone takes only a minute or two at most. I, like you, don't know how they work, but boy do they! Thanks again for the tip.

Rick,

Thanks for the tip on rust eraser or a Nagura Stone. I will try them ASAP.

I also am a BESS fan. I have a PT-50A and use it often. I have found that checking each blade in between 3 and 5 spots on the blade (tip, half way to center, center, halfway to heel and heel) and averaging the results gives me a better idea of overall sharpness and helps identify problems. Testing blades that are 3 inches or so long I only check the tip, center and heel.

One more point. The grader stone needs to be cleaned of debris frequently. I have a 1x30 belt sander with a scotch bright belt on it and clean the grader stone every time that I use it. This only takes about 10 seconds each time.

Using the JWW does take too much time to use at a farmer's market. It is very doable for low volume sharpening. Even at a farmer's market, occasionally someone might want a more complete job than usually provided in such a venue.

By the way, John asked which direction I use the wheel. I have been using it edge leading but I may change to edge trailing because the wheel has grabbed the knife being sharpened (twice) and the wheel was slightly damaged. Each knife cut a notch in the surface of the wheel. The first one has since smoothed out but the last one just happened day before yesterday and still has a way to go before is is worn away.

Also, I feel that the water should be changed often for two reasons. First, clean water makes it easier to see what you are doing. Second, the water gets very cloudy and dirty, especially since the wheel must be cleaned with the fine side of the grader stone after every knife or so. This puts a lot of metal filings in the water (about the consistency of fine flour). It may be that this gunk in the water affects that sharpening process.

Frequent cleaning is necessary because the wheel's surface gets imbedded with metal and stops cutting well. I have found that the wheel cleans up faster and easier if it is cleaned every few minutes..

Chuck,

Which wheel direction do use with the Japanese stone?

I have vacillated on getting one and more recently I am tempted by the CBN stones offered by Knife Grinders in Australia.
I am able to obtain exceptionally sharp edges with the standard stone and honing wheel by exactly controlling the angle for each process. I worry that these wheels if I did get them would be relegated to use with only my knife collection due to the time required for changing the wheels, water and USB height.

I use the JWW turning into the edge. However, you have to be careful. I have had the JWW grab the knife twice and each time the JWW was damaged. The knife put a cut in the surface of the wheel. The first cut has since worn away and smoothed out. The second is still there. I may start using the JWW edge trailing instead of edge leading to prevent this from happening again.

Also, it is my opinion that changing the water often is a good idea, especially since the wheel's surface should be cleaned with the stone grader every knife or so. Dirty water makes it hard to see the edge while sharpening and the metal fragments in the dirty water may have a negative effect on the sharpening process.

I recently bought a Japanese Water Wheel (JWW) and use it all the time. I have heard people refer to a JWW as an unnecessary luxury that has very little practical use. I disagree!  Any knife that is just dull enough to need grinding but just barely, the JWW will take care of the problem. Although 4000 grit does not remove much metal, it does remove some. Any knife that will not respond to stropping or other edge refining techniques but is other wise pretty sharp can have new burrs created by the JWW while grinding away only tiny amounts of metal. At the same time the JWW produces beautiful mirror finished bevels.

Those of you who have JWWs and have not used them much might consider give them another try. You might be surprised at their practical utility.

I just got my T4 about a week ago and love it. There is so much to learn and I am excited about learning it. I have been sharpening knives (all my own) for about 2 years and usually apex the blades on a 1x30 belt sander and remove the burr with a paper wheel. This works about 75% of the time. However, I frequently get large "positive" burrs that I cannot seem to get rid of. I've tried everything that I know of to solve this problem (I've watched countless YouTube videos, read books etc.) Nothing works.

Now my first Tormek related question.
      1) I have unintentionally created a couple of these "impossible" burrs on my T4 and have the same problem. The honing wheel will not remove the burr. What do you suggest?
      2) Will any light machine oil work on the honing wheel (3 in 1 oil perhaps) and how often should I apply it?
      3) How often should I apply the grit cream to the honing wheel and should I let it soaking for a while before using the wheel?
      4) Since the grading stone changes the grinding wheel from 220 to 1000 grit, does the wheel's grit vary between the two? In other words, at some point is the grinding wheel's grit rating say, 600 or some other           in-between grit? If so, how would we figure out what it actually is?

I am excited to be a Tormek owner and a member of this community. I'm sure I am going to have many more questions and am looking forward to learning from each of you.