Messages

I agree with you Ken. Different ways to reach a sufficiently good result must be good. I think Sir A has several good and wise points as well. And sometimes I think it's good to fall down a rabbit hole to learn. Sometimes I joke and call it a mess tester when people want to compete in "Bess" it looks like a deep rabbit hole at the end. Sorry for the bad English but it's a joke!

Cbwx has a good point of view with "wouldn't you get the same result if you didn't adjust for this error?" If you always measure with a small error, the result will always also have the same small error. This can become perfectly acceptable if you continue to "measure wrong" over time and accept the small error.

I think Ken agrees with this. -If you want useful results from measurements, you have to measure with the same technique every time, it is the difference between the measurement results that is most important. do not change the measurement method, you will soon not know what the results mean.

I very much appreciate your answers and that you challenge and develop issues with your experiences. Thanks

My problem is probably that I like rabbit holes! Maybe I'm a little crazy. Or much!
As an old retired engineer with long experience from manufacturing tools, jigs and prototypes, I have a built-in interest in solving problems and taking on every challenge. Sharpening knives, drills and similar tools is now my hobby but I enjoy just as much solving any problem I come across and trying to make a tool or jig for it.

And now I may have fallen down a new rabbit hole. An old friend of mine, very good knife sharpener, came to me and asked if I could build him a simple jig to set his knife angles but without having to use calculators or measure wheel sizes, usb height or other measurements. He doesn't use computers or smartphones that much and is quite analog. But he has discovered a need to be able to know what angle he is grinding with and to be able to set a specific angle. And he is not comfortable with Tormek's anglemaster on knives.
Has anyone of you worked with the same "rabbit hole" sorry! and maybe have ideas about solutions.
I have come a little way and am in the process of testing a prototype that can handle an accuracy of approx. 0.5 degrees right now.

I think we are talking about two different things here. Knowing which angle you grind with and being able to repeat it in the future is one thing. Getting the ability and skill to reach below 100 bess is another matter. You can probably reach about 80 bess with 14, 15, or 16 degrees or without knowing which degrees you grind with. It also depends on which stone you use, how you hone, if you polish with a paper wheel or rock hard felt wheel, diamond spray etc. I find that my customers are most satisfied if the knife works as they expect and I believe that the right angle for the right knife and field of use is more important than 80 bess. (which most people don't even know what it is)
A working knife must also last as long as possible and then perhaps a higher angle is better for that particular knife. With perhaps a higher Bess number! But I want to be able to repeat that result and that angle again.
What do you think?
Or am I thinking wrong?

I can agree with you cbwx34 that it may not always be necessary in practice with such accuracy, within 0.1mm. But that's not my point here.
I think it's up to everyone to decide how exactly they want to try to get their angles. But the more you know, the more precisely you can grind. Learning how what you do and how it works, both in theory and in practice, is education. And my ambition is to learn as much as possible to understand what I am doing. Therefore, I am thinking, measuring and producing jigs that can match the factually correct values of the calculation programs. And try to get as close as I can. In that case I think "measurements within 0.1 mm are needed!"  I hope I managed to answer your question
I believe that the more I understand the more I become a better sharpener And it has also given me tools so I can measure and tune my Tormek both faster and better when am working. I also share it with you all and it is up to each of you to decide if or how you want to use them or not and how accurate you wont to measuring. Don't get me wrong, I'd love for you to come up with suggestions for improvements or correct me if I'm on the wrong track. With an adjustment of 0.156mm on the caliper you are less than 0.024 error from all wheel sizes within 250 to 214 but again it is up to each individual to set the tolerances.

Hi
Glad you liked them.
You can compensate for  a small measurement errors due to the height of the grinding wheel between the legs. Measurement error for wheel diameter 250 is 0.144mm and for wheel dia 214 it is 0.168mm.
Recommends adjusting the position of the caliper by 0.156mm.
You can read more about it and se more pictures in you follow the link and download Angle Calculator Lite V1.4

I've been busy trying to see how accurately and repeatably you can grind with a Tormek. I know it's a little geeky and maybe not always necessary with exact angles to sharpen some knives for the wife!
There are several fine and precise calculation programs now that give us all the measurements we need, but I have had difficulty measuring these measurements with insufficiently high accuracy.  I think measurements within 0.1 mm are needed! Therefore I use calipers to measure with in my jigs.
Mainly talking about usb height and projection distance.  How to easily find the center line on different sizes of wheels and the height of the usb support? How easy and accurate to find projection distance on knives even if you angle them differently in the jig?
I have made two new measuring jigs for this purpose. They help me work faster and more precisely when I work with knife grinding. I can also rehearse my angles and measurements more accurately with these jigs.
Perhaps it may be of interest to some of you to take part of what I have worked with. Or maybe i can inspire someone. Or do you also have ideas on the same theme to share?
More pictures and information can be found in the excel file "Angle Calculator Lite V1.4" which is updated in this link. https://forum.tormek.com/index.php/topic,4885.msg37303.html#msg37303

The "Angle Calculator Lite V1.4" is now updated with two more measurement jigs and some small adjustments.
The file is attached down below.

I can also contribute with a tip on a jig that I use daily. Fast and easy to use. It works for all diameters of wheels that I have. Both grinding wheels and honing wheels. Easy to make yourself if you are a little handy. I have adjusted the slide gauge 0.15mm to compensate for the highest point of the wheel which is in between the legs of the "fork". A little training and then it's very quick to set or measure the USB height

Here is a 3D tool
https://forum.tormek.com/index.php/topic,4885.msg34985.html#msg34985

Hello Sir Amwell
Yes, The hole is printed in the 3d model, dia 6.8 mm, and I have then threaded by hand with M8 *1.25 mm tap. But you can choose the thread that suits you if you can change the file a little or choose a larger thread diameter and drill the hole a little bigger.

Thank you very much Dutchman for your review. It was much appreciated

I myself sometimes have a need to print out simple tables for angles and distances etc. to be able to work a little faster and without a computer.
So I have created my own excel sheet for this purpose. Inspired by Ton Nillesen.
For those who like paper tables to have by the side when you grind like me I have added a function to my Angle calculator that gives the possibility to customize and print a table for distance between Top of Usb and grinding wheel adapted to different angles and jig lengths.
You can found it under the worksheet USB-->Wheel in "Angle Calculator Lite V1,3"
Hope someone like it.
Angle Calculator Lite V1,3 is attached below

Attached is a small update to Angle Calculator Lite.

Hello Tukkis I use this little tool all the time and together with the excel file it becomes very easy to set the correct degrees on the machine. If you have the opportunity, I suggest you print the T-cube on a 3D printer and try it. You can find the 3D file above. I have an updated version of the excel file if you want! Just let me know! There are many different ways to set the angle and this is the way I prefer to use. What I have tried and which is not so common is to set the angle with a digital angle cube. But you can use the tool in several different ways, even together with other good calculators like Open AngleTool or Knife Sharpening Angle Calculator.

Hi Ken
Glad you liked them. These are fine quality knives that are also manufactured for the Swedish army, air force and Swedish special forces. They are usually thicker than, for example, fine kitchen knives and therefore convex edges work very well. The same width as the ones we call forest knives.
And it is also true that convex knives have a larger tip angle than, for example, kitchen knives. It is part of the function. I never grind convex edges on thin knives but see an advantage in having it on thicker blades.

As you can see in my previous pictures I have built my own grinding jig where I can grind convex edges with controlled angles and radius.

Should be interesting to test kj-45 but I see a problem that I think can be difficult to solve and that is to copy or follow an existing convex edge. This is usually what I do when I sharpen convex knives. But we'll see if it works.

I also take photos myself but with a Nikon. Not as nice as with a Leica

Hi Ken
Here can you find convex knifes
https://fallkniven.se/en/home/