Japanese stones

[ionut]

Japanese wheels

I've got converted from the manual sharpening to the motorized version because of the time required to put a sharp edge on my tools. I was very happy with the manual method but it required me to move my bottom from the dovetails or whatever I was doing to the sharpening stone collection and I was never been happy to interrupt my work knowing that it takes a while until the things get how I like them. To make the story short I ended with my Tormeks. I am happy with them and they do a good job,  the best thing about them is the speed of sharpening, now it is not hard for me to interrupt my work to put a nice edge on the tool I use because it takes me just a couple of minutes in average and I always have in short time a perfect edge when I need it.
There is still a problem, I found that my edges even though very sharp they don't last as long as when I was sharpening the manual way and I have the explanation too, the so called 1000 grit in my opinion is far from it. If you compare the scratch patterns between the Tormek wheel graded at 1000 and an actual 1000 stone there is a huge difference, and if you add a magnifier glass everything gets amplified. I've tried hardly to grade the stone to get closer results to the real 1000 I pressed the grader so hard I stalled the motor and the best thing I've done when pressing so hard and for long time was to untrue my wheel.
Using a 4000 Japanese stone the Tormek version SG250 for a secondary micro bevel improved a lot the amount of time the edge remained sharp, but I still was not where I wanted.
I got an aftermarket 800 Japanese stone and now I am tempted to change my occupation from "wooder" to "sharpener". All my bevels now are looking as they were before and the big difference is the edge stays as when I was using the manual version to sharpen my tools. As an example I had to make 16 scarf joints 3/4X4'  fir and I've used tenoned dovetails for that. The tools I used were a rabbet plane, a router plane and a1/4" and 1" Japanese chisels. The rabbets were 1.5" wide and 3/8" deep, anyways I've made 15 with no re-sharpening of any tool, I still have one to finish. Maybe the rabbet plane blade needs a bit of touch up but I know for sure I can finish the 16th one without that.
Most of my sharpening goes on a main bevel established initially that can be done easily with the SG-250 on the lowest grit, but after that I only need a quick 800 or 1000 touch-up and the microbevel. It is rare when I need to change the main bevel for a tool. So from now on the SG-250 will be used only to establish the main bevel when I need that
I know the Japanese stones may be softer and they may get consumed faster, I am not there yet but the new wheel it cuts very fast anything up to A2 steel – I didn't try yet any HSS but it will happen soon- and I also know that nothing replaces a great edge that lasts long. And more than that it would have been great if Tormek would have offered this option and I wouldn't have had to try it with an aftermarket stone even if is made for the Tormek machines.
I admit my solution is an expensive and may not be a choice for others, woodworking is still a hobby for me... well you got me, it is a bit more, it is a kind of disease but I made the effort to save the money and spent them for great things that made my hobby full of satisfactions and not frustrations.

Ionut

[Backhertz]

Until I get more experience with my T7, I'm a believe a 1,000 grit stone is all I need to touch up my knives.  So began my search for a 1,000 grit stone.

I wrote to www.fine-tools.com about their lack of sales to the US.  I guess others wrote too & as of yesterday, they are offering their products to the U.S.  They offer 800 & 4,000 grit  Matsunaga  King & Sun Tiger brands for T7 & T3 sharpeners.  They also offer Naniwa 500 & 1,000 grit stones only for the T7. 

I learned that Naniwa stones are often relabeled like dick.biz does in Germany.  But I believe dick.biz offers a 1,000 grit Dick.biz (Naniwa) stone for the T3.  These stones are much more pricer than what I've seen in the U.S.  One good thing is people in the U.S. do not pay VAT, so that is a 16% reduction.  Fine-tools.com also throughs in a volume discount of 2% for some reason I am unaware of. 

I have been reading messages of people going through the effort of having a stone shipped to Canada & then from Canada to the U.S. for a 4,000 grit stone.  That's a lot of postage considering there are Tormek & Matsunaga stones available offered by sellers in the U.S. 

Tony

[jeffs55]

You will have very limited use for a 4000 grit stone. That grit is associated with scalpels or other such blades. We all want our blades to be that sharp but seldom need them to be. Having said all that, I bought one of these 4000 grit stones from a US supplier. The stone wobbled like a weeble on my Tormek shaft. I mean its side to side displacement looked like a a great a__ walking down the street! It was all over the spectrum. The good news is that the US supplier PAID for return shipping. These stones weigh a lot and are expensive to ship. The second stone was fine and I still have it. It is for the final polishing of an ALready sharp edge. It will NOT sharpen anything unless you have time beyond belief. It is not made for that. Bottom line, there is very limited use for this stone. It is basically a prestige thing.

[ionut]

Hi Tony,

I got my 800 from Woodcraft, Shipping was free in US for that priceat that time and compared with the original Tormek stones it came cheaper including the shipping in Canada side which I still had to pay.
I agree for knives you don't have to go crazy as I did, 1000 grit and the honing wheel is just enough I think, I am not a knife specialist.
Also as Jeffs55 said the 4000 one is for honing only, don't try to sharpen with that. I mostly sharpen woodworking handtools and occasionally knives and some axes.
For handtools and few planner and jointer blades I would not go back to the one machine one stone setting. I use the 1000 grit on one machine for 95% of the resharpening (with exceptions when I want to change the bevels) and I move on the honing machine (with the 4000) , I move together with the universal support so I can rely on a very precise secondary bevel by rotating the nut a specific number of times depending on the wear difference between the stones. And in very short time I end with a perfect microbevel exactly like I would have done it by hand.
In that way my edges stay longer sharp and there is no risk for rounding the edge. I agree this setting is expensive but with this settings all my search for getting always a perfect sharp edge VERY FAST, is over.

Ionut