Maybe dumb q from newbie about shaping wheels

[Naf]

Tormek newbie here... not newbie sharpener.   Like on manual guided systems (EP/K03) when you put in half inch stone for recurves... if you want have narrow Tormek stone wheel, how you achieve this? (Aware of radius CBN wheel from KGau... not opposed to in future maybe) What I mean is, take standard stone comes with T, have not measured it but, do you maybe take sharpie and mark the centermost half inch (so not modify this area), then dress in radii () with... what, a chunk of concrete, a$200 diamond plate, a ~$60 dressing tip on end of screwdriver looking thing.   I'm being quite serious here. First post, but have searched/ read many your posts trying find answers some questions. Have seen some recurve topics, but can't dance knives on edges of wheels with dexterity issues. Seeking something more like what used to I guess. Seems like T should maybe offer thinner rounded wheel for this but can't find one, so seems possible making one for purpose. Want same radius both sides, so grader seems inaccurate.  Use truing tool only on outer edges, incrementally, both directions... not gonna get identical this way either but I probably get closer match than with grader. First few knives should round rough edge s if make them close enough would think?  What think you about this? Can't afford screw sh>t all up, that for sure. If you aware of tool do this with or alternative products, can include links please?

[cbwx34]

Tormek newbie here... not newbie sharpener.   Like on manual guided systems (EP/K03) when you put in half inch stone for recurves... if you want have narrow Tormek stone wheel, how you achieve this? (Aware of radius CBN wheel from KGau... not opposed to in future maybe) What I mean is, take standard stone comes with T, have not measured it but, do you maybe take sharpie and mark the centermost half inch (so not modify this area), then dress in radii () with... what, a chunk of concrete, a$200 diamond plate, a ~$60 dressing tip on end of screwdriver looking thing.   I'm being quite serious here. First post, but have searched/ read many your posts trying find answers some questions. Have seen some recurve topics, but can't dance knives on edges of wheels with dexterity issues. Seeking something more like what used to I guess. Seems like T should maybe offer thinner rounded wheel for this but can't find one, so seems possible making one for purpose. Want same radius both sides, so grader seems inaccurate.  Use truing tool only on outer edges, incrementally, both directions... not gonna get identical this way either but I probably get closer match than with grader. First few knives should round rough edge s if make them close enough would think?  What think you about this? Can't afford screw sh>t all up, that for sure. If you aware of tool do this with or alternative products, can include links please?

All you need to do is remove the sharp edge of the wheel with the stone grader, take a look at this...

https://youtu.be/PrRwBTil1l8?t=3696

... really not much different that sharpening a regular knife, (skill wise)

[Naf]

Agreed, but that exactly what I meant about dancing knife across edge of wheel, and skillets I'm thinking that much harder than sharpen standard knife due to dexterity issues. Maybe could pull off, but other concern is trying do like that seems like high chance of varying pressure on every spot on edge result in uneven bevels.  Maybe I completely wrong thinking this and might need additional similar answers make me forget this idea, but just seems like if both sides were radius heavily, resulting in either more of an arch shaped wheel either with or without a short flat spot where the wheel diameter is largest then any variance in pressure would be lessened resulting in better results. In other words, seems like instead of a new squared off wheel, or making one of its edges have radius, that it should look closer to a half circle shape,  also allowing for edges leading rather than trailing like video which can be orders of magnitude harder to debur.  Not trying to disagree with you... you guys are the ones with more experience here... if I need it,  straighten me thinking out. Have no use for illusions.

[John_B]

Agreed, but that exactly what I meant about dancing knife across edge of wheel, and skillets I'm thinking that much harder than sharpen standard knife due to dexterity issues. Maybe could pull off, but other concern is trying do like that seems like high chance of varying pressure on every spot on edge result in uneven bevels.  Maybe I completely wrong thinking this and might need additional similar answers make me forget this idea, but just seems like if both sides were radius heavily, resulting in either more of an arch shaped wheel either with or without a short flat spot where the wheel diameter is largest then any variance in pressure would be lessened resulting in better results. In other words, seems like instead of a new squared off wheel, or making one of its edges have radius, that it should look closer to a half circle shape,  also allowing for edges leading rather than trailing like video which can be orders of magnitude harder to debur.  Not trying to disagree with you... you guys are the ones with more experience here... if I need it,  straighten me thinking out. Have no use for illusions.

I have seen uneven bevels before. They are most often from previous sharpenings or poor manufacturing. I found the best practice is to sharpen the entire blade until the bevel is even. It is good to have an eye loupe to see the bevel when you are getting close. I like to stop just as a burr is formed to avoid unnecessary material removal.

[Naf]

So, am I only one thinking of taking a standard stone and making it'd its perimeter profile rounded instead of straight?!  Would love more thoughts and varied thoughts on this! Persuade me doing this / dissuade me from doing this... not care... either/ other... need more input please.

[tgbto]

I don't think there is any real interest in making the entire perimeter rounded. If the curvature radius is too big you have the same problem as with the straight stone, and if it is too small you still end up with a very small area of contact. So rounding the corners will do. As stated elsewhere you'll end up freehand sharpening instead of using jigs anyway.

[Naf]

I absolutely agree on can be too rounded gets you back to very small area of contact, which is concern.

I completely disagree on ending up freehand ING instead of using jigs.  ForMe, I highly doubt could ever get that far, but I atypical. Have hard enough time holding objects up to wheel, can usually make few passes without taking brake though.

Just realized maybe my thinking completely screw up on this one... on guided sharpeners and recurve it normal for stone hit blade on both sides but not in center, at times,  even with half inch stone. But this not disconcerting because in complete control of speed. On Tormek, not control speed, so both moments of uneven pressure and/or too small area of contact multiplies uneven removal. So, was thinking why not round profile stone? But thinking about your post make me realizesomething extraordinarily simple... regardless of how perfectly you could round off profiler on any wheel, of any width, while trying to sharpen like you would on the straight edge of a knife... the curvature of the knife, which varies on even the same knife,  dictates how the profile would need to be, in order optimize the stone profile shape to minimize small area of contact, which would then get thrown out window when switching to different recurve. You'd need a different wheel profiled perfectly for every... never mind it now moot point. I now understand my error in thinking.  So my evolved question is...

With a standard stone with small radius on both edge,  is it safe/stupid to have a recurve hit in two places on a wheel at the same moment, similar to guided manual systems, since I'd be trying do this with a jig rather than freehand dancing knives on edge of wheel like video show?

I realize someone gonna simply say go try it instead of asking, but with dexterity/ strength issues, it simply sensible to ask before potentially mutilating knife cost more than a standard Tormek stone was considering modifying.   Also, I do realize the rpm circa 100, not 3k or 6k whatever, so would probably be unlikely simply rip it from your hands, so the reduced speed helps.

[tgbto]

Well a few issues come to my mind :
- If you want to contact your recurve with the wheel on two points, and say for example sake that your wheel is 5cm wide, your recurve blade 9 cm long. Then you'll be able to sharpen 4 cm on both sides, leaving 1cm unsharpened in the middle, so you'd need at least a knife more than twice the width of the stone.
- If the previous thing is taken care of, then if the curvature of the blade is significant, then you will have to pivot your jig handle a lot, so you need a very long jig handle and a very long USB to support the handle. And of course you can't use the unmodified tormek jig anyway because then you can only sharpen at two points, and not move the blade, because of the curvature of the blade.
- The previous point with the jig handle/USB length also prevents controlled angle when sharpening on only one corner of the stone at a time, so you really have to do it freehand on a Tormek. Which makes it much less sensible and requires much more skill. Rod-based sharpeners will handle that much more efficiently, often for less than the cost of a Tormek wheel.

[Naf]

I needed hear precisely that.  Thank you!


You absolutely right about everything. I sit here and imagine passes with arms in air looking like idiot my wife wondering what hell.


If 16" knife, with what I would call extreme variation in curvature,  much taller rod needed and angle control impossible. I also extremely prefer well defined shoulders. If much longer recurve, maybe impossible with any jig. So if freehand not option, these Type knives need stick with doing on my other systems, as simply not do well on Tormek. Bummer!

[Naf]

I forget...


I pretty sure you guys saved me from ruining at least one stone and one knife at least!


Thank you so much!


Terrible thought of mine of try this. Just trying find way of doing something, but need stick with my old ways on this.


My mistake!