CW-220 Composite Honing Wheel, thei missing questions

[Ken S]

I have long believed that the next major innovations in Tormek sharpening will be in honing. The recently introduced
CW-220 may be a step in that direction; however, given the lack of information, it is hard to know. It is marketed for supposedly "clean environments". I presume that may mean in food preparation areas, where using honing compound might be undesirable. However, it does not seem the same as the rubber honing wheel for the T2.

It is an option for the stripped down T8. I happen to think the stripped down option is a very good idea as a second machine for experienced users. I think beginners would be better served with the traditional package.

I happen to like the way it cuts, especially when moistened with water. I just found an interesting short video on Nick Agar's channel where he demonstrates using it to impressively hone a gouge. Nick used it dry. It was very polished very quickly.

I have not seen any grit numbers published, wet or dry. Nor have I seen any head to head comparison tests comparing it with the leather honing wheel or comparing wet to dry.

I would like more details about the "clean environment".

I think the use of the word "tip" was unfortunate for native English speakers. An earlier forum reply stated that using water was only a tip. For me that meant a suggestion, as opposed to a technical recommendation. I believe this is only a difference in languages.

From my limited use with the CW-220, I believe it is a useful product and a versatile second honing wheel. My opinion is lvargely bvased on my high regard for Tormek, rather than published factual evidence. I welcome more information.

Ken

[cbwx34]

...However, it does not seem the same as the rubber honing wheel for the T2.
...
...I just found an interesting short video on Nick Agar's channel where he demonstrates using it to impressively hone a gouge. Nick used it dry. It was very polished very quickly.
...

Link to the video?  (Couldn't find it).

Also anything specific that makes you think it's different than the T-2 wheel?

[Ken S]

Good catch, CB. I admit that I neglected to post the link. In a lazy moment, I thought it would be very easy. I was able to locate it again, but only after some searching. (Sorry) Here is the link:

https://youtu.be/4ZVqF-SqtKA

I need to do some more comparison work with the CW-220 and the T2's rubber wheel. I can feel the bumpy surface of the CW-220, especially when wet, both with my fingers and with a chisel. I don't feel that roughness with the T2 rubber wheel.

[now]

I think the use of the word "tip" was unfortunate for native English speakers. An earlier forum reply stated that using water was only a tip. For me that meant a suggestion, as opposed to a technical recommendation. I believe this is only a difference in languages.

The Swedish copy uses the same word, so I don't necessarily think that it's an unfortunate translation in this case.   I don't want to claim authority on this, but given that I'm half American, half Swedish, I'm familiar with both cultures and I'd guess that it's probably more a question of Swedes not wishing to tell other people how to do what they intend to do directly.  (For example, our Corona guidelines "recommend" various behavior and such, which is implicitly understood to be "mandated" behavior, but we would never say so, which makes it hard for foreigners and immigrants to understand how to act.). I would, however, say that the bold text and the exclamation mark certainly strongly suggests that it's a rather firm recommendation :-).

What I would like to know is what kind of abrasive is being used.

By the way, Knife Grinders has two videos discussing the wheel:

• https://youtu.be/ZSDybo0KrzQ
• https://youtu.be/tVTg0HVgoKo

Apparently, the grit used is rather large, I'd say.

[ega]

On the language point, the Oxford English Dictionary has an extensive entry headed by the words:
"A piece of useful private or special information communicated by an expert".

Gratuities are a much more difficult subject!

[Ken S]

Well stated, and it gave me a good chuckle, two important characteristics of a good post!
Ken

[BeSharp]

Just sharpened and honed using KnifeGrinder's suggested protocol of SB-250 Blackstone /CW-220 composite wheel / LA-220 leather wheel with .25 micron chromium oxide.

Wow. The pictures show me replicating Vadim's BESS numbers.

I estimate it reduces sharpening time by about a third.

If you're a commercial sharpener, run, don't walk to your favourite Tormek dealer and order one. (I ordered mine from the US as the Canadian wholesaler, Big Bear Tools, doesn't have it in yet).

I paid $90 CAD for shipping and it was worth every penny. 

[BeSharp]

I forgot to add, this is well suited for sharpening cleavers. Instead of having to re-set the universal support bar height on 5 machines, I now only have to calibrate two. MUCH faster.

SO what's the secret ingredient? I don't know, and really don't care. All I care is that IT WORKS. Maybe it contains dust from the corners of IKEA warehouses...

Having said that, it's interesting that some gray stuff comes out when you spray the composite wheel with water.

Good on Tormek on coming out with yet another (obviously) well-researched product!

[Even]

Nice result BeSharp!

Did you run your SB-250 coarse or fine?
What dps set on these knife?
What sw did you use to calculate the distanse?

Even

[BeSharp]

I replicated Vadim's protocol as much as possible, so:
1) SB-220 on coarse (doesn't make sense starting on fine?)
2) 16 dps (I sharpen a lot of Shun, and don't want to have to re-calibrate support bar heights)
3) KnifeGrinders FVB software
4) PT-50B

[BeSharp]

Part 2 of Vadim's video on the CW-220 (see link at post #3 above) includes a summary of six different protocols and resulting BESS values:

Note that Protocol #2 is the fastest method with a BESS score of less than 100 (wired edge removed). That is the method I replicated above.

[BeSharp]

Tried "Protocol #2" at the farmer's market two days ago. It performed well. This is a superior, and all-Tormek, alternative to using two paper wheels with 180 grit and the white honing compound.

Vadim emailed me and asked if I had done any Shuns this way.. I just so happened to have a customer's Shun on hand. Results below: BESS = 80.

Being able to even hone Shun's VG-MAX steel shows Tormek has indeed produced a superior product!

[BeSharp]

.25u Chromium Oxide Paste in Canada

I had difficulty finding .25 micron chromium oxide in Canada. Finally found this small mom and pop business in Port Rowan, Ontario (population: 1,102):

https://classicedge.ca

Look under Strops > Strop Paste > Chromium Oxide Paste

It's 50,000 grit chromium oxide.

[Ken S]

Useful posts. Thanks for posting.

Ken

[cbwx34]

I have long believed that the next major innovations in Tormek sharpening will be in honing. The recently introduced
CW-220 may be a step in that direction; however, given the lack of information, it is hard to know. It is marketed for supposedly "clean environments". I presume that may mean in food preparation areas, where using honing compound might be undesirable. However, it does not seem the same as the rubber honing wheel for the T2.

...

I have not seen any grit numbers published, wet or dry. Nor have I seen any head to head comparison tests comparing it with the leather honing wheel or comparing wet to dry.

...

From my limited use with the CW-220, I believe it is a useful product and a versatile second honing wheel. My opinion is lvargely bvased on my high regard for Tormek, rather than published factual evidence. I welcome more information.

Ken

I finally got a CW-220 wheel, and agree that it doesn't seem to be the same as the T-2 honing wheel.

But, think it has diamond in it?  It sure glitters in the sunlight.  I shot a couple of quick video clips moving it around in sunlight...

https://imgur.com/a/WL5XPpQ

... hmmm...