Why Felt is Best for Deburring

[BeSharp]

Vadim has posted to YouTube a video on why felt is best for deburring, as well as what kind, and what density, works best:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iqnvD8_M2k

[Hannsi1957]

strangely enough i have been trying for months to use a felt wheel for this purpose. unfortunately people always assume that i only want to sell the things from my store. but when Vadim says something like that it seems not to be the case. there is no better way to remove your existing burrs. also the shaft extension is a thing that i have been selling for months. in the meantime i do without the Tormekleder completely and use the rockhard felt wheel with a coating of 1 micron diamond spray instead. after that a few passes over a hanging leather with 0,25 micron and your knife can split hairs. but be careful to grind a 1-1,5° higher angle on the felt wheel to remove the burr completely.
cheers Hanns

[cbwx34]

The use of felt for deburring has been around for a long time... it's not a recent discovery.  Only thing new (maybe?) is using it on the Tormek.

[BeSharp]

The use of felt for deburring has been around for a long time... it's not a recent discovery.  Only thing new (maybe?) is using it on the Tormek.

I watched the video and learned that German "rock hard" is closer to flint hard, whereas Chinese "rock hard" is not. I also learned that using anything other than rock hard does not do as good a job on certain steels.

So I learmed a few new things. Your mileage may vary. 

[Hannsi1957]

Ok Ken I understand.
So to keep it short and sweet.... the statement that a 90g felt wheel only works for hard knives is wrong.

[Ken S]

I do not want to appear to be taking sides; however, I do not want to see this kind of argumentative posting on the forum. The various vendors all have websites and you tube channels. Please confine this kind of post to those sites and keep our forum civil and non commercial. As moderator, I dislike deleting posts or topics; however, if necessary, I will do so.

Ken

[Louiesdad]

Why not go to diamond-hard felt?

[BradGE]

Hi Louiesdad,

The answer to your question is explained thoroughly in the video...

[Louiesdad]

Diamond hard wheels have flex in them also, so the explanation in that video, needs further refinement in order to exclude USA made diamond-hard wheels.

Some hard are others med, some rock hard are others flint hard, some rock hard are others hard.

Perhaps his overseas' manufacturer does not offer diamond hard.

[ABall]

I was going to post this in an old thread from 2015 but the forum suggested I create a new thread, as it concerns using the felt wheel for deburring I hope this is ok to post here, if not then please let me know Ken. The old thread was SJ vs Paper.
I own the SJ and the felt but I have yet to use the latter. I have only used the SJ on my non kitchen knives so far but after watching the vids on felt I am now wondering if we would get a similar result using the SJ at the stage in the video were Vadim switched to paper, IE as a final pass.  Forget about what is "good enough" for a second and also discount operator skill variables, If SJ has been compared to paper all be it not quite as good would this be good practice?

1: sharpen.
2: de burr on Tormek leather at original angle using FVB.
3: remove wire/feather edge with felt at 1.6-2.4 higher angle depending on knife quality as shown in the video.
4: a couple of quick passes on the SJ at original angle.

I would just go ahead and try this method but I have no way to prove its effectiveness until I can afford a BESS. What am I saying, of course I will now do this unless those with way more experience than me tell me im wasting my time, it would just be nice to here some others opinions either way.  I guess I should say my knives may not even warrant the attention to detail, I have read on here that Global knives aren't very hard so if they are no good then my other knives probably dont deserve the felt wheel at all?

Kitchen collection:
A few p sabatier le vrai gourmet that were gifts from my mum many moons ago, no steel markings so probably not worth the effort.
A few Globals because I loved the look and didnt know what a good Japanese knife was.
A large F. Dick, 2385.26
A few Donald Russell knives, again gifts from me mum but I think she did ok here as they say 1.4116-X50 Cr Mo V15.

Alan. (should this be a new thread?)

[cbwx34]

I was going to post this in an old thread from 2015 but the forum suggested I create a new thread, as it concerns using the felt wheel for deburring I hope this is ok to post here, if not then please let me know Ken. The old thread was SJ vs Paper.
I own the SJ and the felt but I have yet to use the latter. I have only used the SJ on my non kitchen knives so far but after watching the vids on felt I am now wondering if we would get a similar result using the SJ at the stage in the video were Vadim switched to paper, IE as a final pass.  Forget about what is "good enough" for a second and also discount operator skill variables, If SJ has been compared to paper all be it not quite as good would this be good practice?

1: sharpen.
2: de burr on Tormek leather at original angle using FVB.
3: remove wire/feather edge with felt at 1.6-2.4 higher angle depending on knife quality as shown in the video.
4: a couple of quick passes on the SJ at original angle.

Not a route I would take... you'll most likely create a new burr (albeit a small one), switching back to the SJ wheel.  IMO, the SJ and paper wheel don't work the same.  Also, in one of the Tormek videos, they comment that they can improve the edge with a couple of passes on the leather wheel, after the SJ wheel.

Even though the SJ leaves a very fine edge, that you could use... other steps are more effective at removing the final burr.

[ABall]

Not a route I would take... you'll most likely create a new burr (albeit a small one), switching back to the SJ wheel.  IMO, the SJ and paper wheel don't work the same.  Also, in one of the Tormek videos, they comment that they can improve the edge with a couple of passes on the leather wheel, after the SJ wheel.

Even though the SJ leaves a very fine edge, that you could use... other steps are more effective at removing the final burr.


Thanks for that insight, has Tormek produced evidence of improving the edge with the leather wheel after the SJ? I know Vadim showed without a shadow of doubt that using the felt wheel after the leather wheel was a big improvement and that the paper wheel after that produced a BESS score of 52, so maybe you are saying the SJ isn't needed if you have a felt wheel? Maybe it's best to apex on the SJ then leather then felt?

[BradGE]

Hi ABall

I agree with cbwx34 - it seems a step backwards to me to go to the SJ after felt.  From my own experience I consider that after achieving the apex there's a fork in the road.  Down one path is a very aesthetically beautiful edge created by ending with the SJ (and very sharp).  Or down the other route, which I chose more often, is ending with felt.  Not as attractive an edge, but definitely sharper than the SJ. 

In BESS terms, my personal best with the SJ is somewhere around 90, vs 47 via felt.  But when I sharpen for other people they ALWAYS prefer the SJ finish.

Cheers,

Brad

[ABall]

Hi ABall

I agree with cbwx34 - it seems a step backwards to me to go to the SJ after felt.  From my own experience I consider that after achieving the apex there's a fork in the road.  Down one path is a very aesthetically beautiful edge created by ending with the SJ (and very sharp).  Or down the other route, which I chose more often, is ending with felt.  Not as attractive an edge, but definitely sharper than the SJ. 

In BESS terms, my personal best with the SJ is somewhere around 90, vs 47 via felt.  But when I sharpen for other people they ALWAYS prefer the SJ finish.

Cheers,

Brad

Hmm, have you tried to have your cake and eat it? I too love the finish from the SJ but why not use the felt after that? I would be interested in your scores if you have already dismissed this method Brad.

[RickKrung]

Hi ABall

I agree with cbwx34 - it seems a step backwards to me to go to the SJ after felt.  From my own experience I consider that after achieving the apex there's a fork in the road.  Down one path is a very aesthetically beautiful edge created by ending with the SJ (and very sharp).  Or down the other route, which I chose more often, is ending with felt.  Not as attractive an edge, but definitely sharper than the SJ. 

In BESS terms, my personal best with the SJ is somewhere around 90, vs 47 via felt.  But when I sharpen for other people they ALWAYS prefer the SJ finish.

Cheers,

Brad

Hmm, have you tried to have your cake and eat it? I too love the finish from the SJ but why not use the felt after that? I would be interested in your scores if you have already dismissed this method Brad.

I have to agree with someone here, but I'm not sure which or maybe both .  I've found the best result, in both appearance and sharpness, with the use of the SJ wheel then rock hard felt with 1µ diamond paste.  I have not found that the use of the felt/diamond combo degrades the finish given by the SJ wheel rather the opposite, it improves them.

Rick