What to do/use when the needs alot of grinding.

[plonken]

Hi

Fairly new to the Tormek grinding, bought a T4 a year ago.

My problem is how to to or use when there is alot of grinding to remove a nick or when the blade has lost a small shard.

Do you use a beltgrinder or how do you do in these cases?

//Thomas

[Ken S]

Good question, Thomas.

I have a suggestion:

The Tormek DWC-200 (Diamond Wheel Coarse-200 mm diameter). This wheel cuts more aggressively than the SG-200. Tormek only markets it for the T2 for some reason. I can tell you from personal experience that it and the DWF-200 wheels work just as well with the T4. Tormek claims they should only be used dry, although I have not seen any supporting data for that claim. Even used dry, they ate very useful with the T4. The shaft and almost the entire machines are identical with the T2 and T4.

You can also use a belt grinder, however, the DWC-200 would be my first choice.

Ken

[plonken]

Hi

Feels like that is a better solution as you can use the all the support tools that you already have for your Tormek.
Didn't know that that would fit the T4.

Thanks for the input Ken really appreciate it!!

Best Regards Thomas

[Ken S]

Thomas,

Tormek has three distribution channels. One channel covers the T8 and T4, as well as their jigs and accessories. A restaurant channel covers the T2, which is designed for restaurant work. The third channel is the Bushmaster, catering to outdoor uses. Even though the T4 and T4 Bushmaster edition are identical except for color, and the T2 and T4 share most parts, they are distributed differently.

The DWF-200 (Diamond Wheel Find- 200mm diameter, 600 grit) was designed as the standard issue wheel with the T2. Tormek also added the DWC-200 360 grit wheel for the T2. No mention of using these with the T4. The reason that I know they will work with the T4 is because within an hour of receiving my T2, I had DWF working on my T4. (The rubber honing wheel also works on the T4, although I prefer the leather honing wheel.)

According to Tormek, the two 200mm diameter diamond wheels should only be used dry. Supposedly they will disintegrate if used wet. Even if only used dry, they are a useful addition to the T4.

Ken

[RickKrung]

...snip...

Do you use a beltgrinder or how do you do in these cases?

//Thomas

...snip...

The Tormek DWC-200 (Diamond Wheel Coarse-200 mm diameter). This wheel cuts more aggressively than the SG-200. ...snip...

You can also use a belt grinder, however, the DWC-200 would be my first choice.

Ken

This has been discussed at great length here on the forum.  Opinions and experience are quite varied.  I've been dealing with it for over two years, which is as long as I've had a Tormek (T8).  My first step was to get an SB stone.  Wasn't aggressive enough.  Second, was to get traditional grinding wheel, meant for a traditional high speed grinder and adapt it for use on a Tormek.  This required a bushing to go from a 1" hole in the wheel to the 12mm shaft and washers/flanges to take up the unused space on the Tormek shaft.  Worked well and maintained the water bath and "cleanliness" of the Tormek - that is no grinding dust.  But, it requires a wheel change, which takes time.  Next was a mid-speed grinder with white grit wheels.  Worked great, too great.  I could not control the heat build up at the apex, so it was essentially abandoned for this purpose.  It was "dirty", as any method not in a water bath would be.  Fourth was a DC diamond grinding wheel.  Works much better than the SG or SB stones, but still not aggressive enough (for me) and again, requires a wheel change.  One really nice thing for all of the diamond wheels is that they use the same USB/jig projection settings, so no time is lost changing these, even though wheel changes are involved.  Fifth and so far finally, it is a Viel 1x42 belt grinder - with variable speed control - and this latter point is important.  Being able to slow down the belt speed allows for very nice heat control, as well as controlled metal removal. Being a "modification geek", I made extensive changes to make the Viel work with Tormek jigs.  Such mods are not going to be feasible for most, but the Viel and other, less expensive, grinders can be used without modification.  This would entail the use of a platform that can be adjusted for angles and the grinding would be done freehand.  The latter would work well enough for the rough metal removal, to be refined and finished on the Tormek.  I generally start with the DC wheel to begin that edge refinement process.  And, like all non-waterbath options, it is dirty. But, it is aggressive enough and versitile enough that it is my preferred option. 

In conclusion, there are several options.  I think a DC wheel for your T4 may be a very good first step.  Find out if it is aggressive enough.  If it is, great, you are done.  If it isn't, and you move on to something else, the DC wheel will still be very useful for most sharpening activities.  I am very glad to have one and use it most of the time.  The need for the belt grinder is much more limited, but when it is needed, I'm very glad to have it.  One downside of a DC wheel used dry is that it also will be "dirty".  I do not know if it would help to use it "over" the water trough in the hope that some of the dirt will fall into it and not require as much additional cleanup. 

Long winded, but I hope helpful.  Good luck and keep us posted.  We will be here to help as you work through finding a solution. 

Rick

[jvh]

My problem is how to to or use when there is alot of grinding to remove a nick or when the blade has lost a small shard.

Do you use a beltgrinder or how do you do in these cases?

//Thomas

Hi,

I vote for a belt grinder if there is a lot of grinding. I haven't got it for a long time, still learning, but it's a really time saver. 

jvh

[Jan]

Very nice machine indeed! Can you share some details please?

With the support bar positioned as shown in the picture the grinder will produce a hollow grid?

Jan

[Even]

I have purchased 80grit CBN wheel from KnifeGrinders and this outperforms everything else I have tried on the Tormek.
It's still not the fastest machine, but you get all the benefits of the Tormek and it's acceptable fast.

But I want to invest in a belt grinder, but it's not just for knife sharpening.

[Ken S]

I have found that the Tormek and a belt grinder complement each other very well, especially if the belt grinder is converted to variable speed.

I am impressed with the Knife Grinders CBN wheels. However, they are only available in 250 mm diameter.
Other 200 mm CBN wheels are available. If the DWC-200 is not fast cutting enough for your needs or wants, I suggest the Norton 3X wheels, either in 80 or 46 grit. Either of these $50 wheels will get the job done for you.  The 3X wheels are not exactly plug and play with the Tormek, however, either of them will do what you need.

Ken

[RickKrung]

I have purchased 80grit CBN wheel from KnifeGrinders and this outperforms everything else I have tried on the Tormek.
It's still not the fastest machine, but you get all the benefits of the Tormek and it's acceptable fast.

But I want to invest in a belt grinder, but it's not just for knife sharpening.

I'm very intrigued by this, Jan.  Please keep us posted.  80 grit is the same as the Norton wheel I found to be very effective in its metal removal, the primary difference being the Norton loses diameter with use.  My assumption here being CBN, they not, like the diamond wheels, loose diameter with use.

I have found that the Tormek and a belt grinder complement each other very well, especially if the belt grinder is converted to variable speed.

I am impressed with the Knife Grinders CBN wheels. However, they are only available in 250 mm diameter.
Other 200 mm CBN wheels are available. If the DWC-200 is not fast cutting enough for your needs or wants, I suggest the Norton 3X wheels, either in 80 or 46 grit. Either of these $50 wheels will get the job done for you.  The 3X wheels are not exactly plug and play with the Tormek, however, either of them will do what you need.

Ken

One Norton 3X wheel will be lots cheaper than a good quality belt sander, or the 80 grit CBN wheel. For the price, this would be hard to beat and it preserves the benefits of the Tormek wet system.  This was exactly my second attempt/option.  In fact, the Norton 3X wheels that I have actually came from Ken.  Thanks, Ken. I don't use them much any more, but the 80 grit one goes with me whenever I travel.  If I was really cramped for space, I would not take the belt grinder, instead, I'd take the Norton. 

Rick

[Ken S]

Rick,

My intended use for theNorton 3X wheels is occasional heavier grinding, specifically reshaping turning tools. For a lot of heavier routine grinding, a diamond or CBN wheel would work better. For fifty bucks, a 3X wheel adds a lot of firepower to the T4. As Rick has learned, the 3X also works with the larger size Tormeks. My plan is to use the 3X for the heavy work and finish with the SG.

Ken

[plonken]

Hi everyone!!

Thanks alot for your insight in this. As i am a newbie in this and it is really good to hear your different suggestions and ideas.

As most of us i guess dont have money in a bottomless well :-) you try to find the thing that can help/be used to get the most "bang for the buck".

I can see that a cheap belt grinder could have some advantages that you can use it for other things but the downside is that you cant use the supportpackage that you use on the T4 without rebuilding it.

So thanks again for your input!!

Best Regards Thomas

[Ken S]

Thomas,

I would remove a nick by placing the tool directly on the support bar (the support being very close to the grinding wheel) and grinding away the damaged area at 90 degrees. They regrind the bevel.

As someone, like you, with limited funds, I am content to spend a little longer amount of time to sharpen an edge. Keep your grinding wheel coarse with the stone grader or TT-100 truing tool. (True lightly and often.)

Experience can go a long way to lessen the effect of lack of funds.

I would pass on a cheap belt grinder. A Viel with the parts to convert if to variable speed will set you back around $300 US. It is a fine complement to the Tormek. Stick with just your Tormek until you master it.

Ken

[John_B]

Thomas,

I would remove a nick by placing the tool directly on the support bar (the support being very close to the grinding wheel) and grinding away the damaged area at 90 degrees. They regrind the bevel.

As someone, like you, with limited funds, I am content to spend a little longer amount of time to sharpen an edge. Keep your grinding wheel coarse with the stone grader or TT-100 truing tool. (True lightly and often.)

Experience can go a long way to lessen the effect of lack of funds.

I would pass on a cheap belt grinder. A Viel with the parts to convert if to variable speed will set you back around $300 US. It is a fine complement to the Tormek. Stick with just your Tormek until you master it.

Ken

Ken,
One thing that needs to be considered when taking this approach is the thickness of the blade. Depending on the severity and size of the damage it often becomes necessary to thin the blade. You also need to take great care to insure that the flatness (or curve) is restored. For an inexpensive knife it is possibly less expensive to just buy a new knife. I agree that a variable speed belt sander would be a great addition for any sharpener's kit.

[RichColvin]

Hi,

I vote for a belt grinder if there is a lot of grinding. I haven't got it for a long time, still learning, but it's a really time saver. 

jvh

Who makes this grinder?