Tormek SG & leather wheel - razor sharp

[wootz]

Our friend Al from New Zealand sharpens knives by means of exclusively Tormek, the stock SG wheel and leather wheel with the Tormek honing paste.
The knife on the photo has been sharpened at 10 dps on the SG wheel, and considering that the steel it is made of produces a burr "in-between" positive and  negative, honed on the leather wheel at 11.5 dps, as per our deburring recommendations.

Near razor sharp (Gillette razors score 50 on this sharpness tester), and the apex is cleanly deburred of any wire edge.
I am so happy for Al, he beats my own records.

[Sam Sloane]

Any Idea how hard/good that blade is???

[Ken S]

Outstanding, Al!
Meticulous technique carries the day.
Thanks, Wootz, for sharing this.

Ken

[John_B]

This is a great result. I like to see how well the stock setup does.

I delivered some newly sharpened knives to a customer yesterday. The smile on her face was very rewarding as she tried cutting some vegetables and a tomato. Prior to sharpening she said she had to pierce the tomato skin to get started and she could never do a thin slice.

[Ken S]

The Tormek is very well suited for many areas of sharpening and and adequate for many more. While the same machine may handle many types of sharpening, the sharpening requirements are not the same. I see this as a problem, especially for new sharpeners.

Sharpening a pocket or kitchen knife is different than sharpening a turning tool. so is sharpening a chisel. A roughing gouge probably removes more wood in rounding a single billet than a bench chisel removes in its owner's lifetime. A mortise chisel, struck with a mallet, gets much heavier dity than a handheld paring chisel.

Using a faster cutting diamond or CBN wheel is advantageous for heavy grinding, like removing nicks from planer blades or reshaping turning tools. A Tormek sharpener doing this kind of sharpening would be better served with diamond or CBN. What bothers me is the lack of good supporting information stating that the requirements for knife, chisel, and carving tools are different, and that diamond and CBN offer no real advantage for sharpening these tools.

When I read posts like the results of Al in New Zealand, posted by Wootz, with an extraordinary BESS score of 55 (only five points more than a new brand name double edge razor blade), I see no need for extra grinding wheels for a new sharpener, or for an experienced knife sharpener. The needed extra ingredients are focused experience and diligent study.

We have two key elements in this quest: We have the combined experience of the forum. We also have BESS Brubacher Edge Sharpness Scale) as a uniform, repeatable measurement of our sharpening progress.

We are truly in an age of evolving sharpening.

Ken

[wootz]

Any Idea how hard/good that blade is???

The blade is a Chinese make multi-layer VG10.
The SG wheel graded with a diamond plate to #1000; leather wheel honing angle controlled with the FVB.
This way of honing ensures complete deburring and wire edge removal without rounding the edge - this knife will stay very sharp for long.

My own best result with this setup is 75 BESS, and I am delighted to see people following our methods do better.

[Al]

Thanks for the kind comments but this would not be possible without all the help from Wootz
Not to mention the FVB computer software and the deburring  book all supplied by Wootz at knife grinders Australia
This knife was inexpensive and VG10 steel

[wootz]

We encourage everyone who sharpens knives & cleavers on Tormek to make a similar Frontal Vertical Base yourself, and we will program software for your home-made FVB to control the honing/grinding angle - our software runs on all Windows and Mac Book & Air, and we also provide a version of the applet for Android smartphones and tablets and iPhone/iPad on request.

The base is the size of the Tormek Horizontal Base XB-100, thickness is 25 mm; legs are 200 mm, round bar 12mm and M12.
But make from what you have, and we will re-program our software to your make. E.g. Hanns from Germany made all by himself and his FVB base is 35mm, we only programmed for his FVB: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcT0P_Vz25vDdpz4Dn7KFFQ/videos

Since I had posted my 1st FVB on this forum in 2016, many have followed, a few examples: http://knifegrinders.com.au/FVB_self-made.htm
.

[Ken S]

Welcome to the forum, Al. I have been intending to make the comment that Australia has become the primary center of the world of knife sharpening. I see now that I should correct "Australia" to "Australasia" (to include New Zealand).

Wootz, you have been very generous in sharing your work. I purchased my FVB from you at market price because I believe the inventor is entitled to the fruits of his inventions. I tried to pay for your applet and printed book. Your generosity is appreciated, although neither expected nor desired. I did purchase the kindle version of your book for my ipad. As much as I love printed books, I have come to think the kindle version is the most practical.

I look forward to reading of more fine work from Australasia!

Ken

[wootz]

Dear Kent, your comment may come as our vanity feed, but trying to remain objective, Australians do seem to know better how to sharpen.

UK 2019 Sharpest Knife Competition winner 139 BESS


Other knives in the UK competition scored between 240 - 370 BESS.
Full results here:
Sharpest Knife Competition at IWA 2019 - The RESULTS - TACTICAL REVIEWS

PT50A BESS sharpness tester.
The UK 139 BESS versus Australian 40/25 BESS in the Sydney competition is too much of a gap to explain by differences in individual testing manner.

If you look closely at the winner in the above photo, rough scratches from a coarse grit can be seen with the naked-eye.
I have no explanation other than Australians know better how to sharpen

[Ken S]

Wootz,
This topic proves the value of this forum. This extreme sharpness began in Holland. It picked up its system of measurement and a simple jig in the US. Then off to SAustralia and the Czech Republic for more math, followed by the US and Australia for more machining and finally to New Zealand.

It is unfortunate that Torgny Jansson is not still with us to see these spectacular results with his machine.

Ken

[John_B]

The FVB is next on my list of things to get.

Another tool that I use to inspect the edge as I sharpen is this pocket magnifier. I have had mine in my toolbox for almost 40 years. I find that knives that come to me have small defects that are difficult to see with the naked eye. More grinding is required to make the edge perfectly clean and remove them.

https://www.amazon.com/Bausch-Lomb-Folding-Pocket-Magnifier/dp/B00012KAAC/ref=sr_1_13?hvadid=241884699741&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9021483&hvnetw=g&hvpos=1t2&hvqmt=e&hvrand=12060953469107441309&hvtargid=kwd-685613373&keywords=bausch+lomb+magnifier&qid=1553863762&s=gateway&sr=8-13

[Ken S]

Great post, John. The Bausch & Lomb pocket magnifier is a genuine real deal classic tool. I have several, the oldest of which I inherited indirectly from a machinist born in 1863. A great tool!

Ken

[Ledpipes]

Wow! It's time to stop lurking and make a post. I'm a newb with a stock T8. On a mission to restore the many neglected Henckels knives residing in the households of my large family. Dad started it all with the Henckels It's going well but want to get to next level with these and my pocket knives.

Trying to decide while I already have a set of 8 inch paper wheels should I get the paper wheel support and applet from Knife Grinders, or should I just focus on getting a FVB in place for the Tormek honing wheel.

[Ken S]

Welcome to the active forum, Ledpipes.

I suspect that your longterm choice will be "D, all of the above". (That's not a bad choice.) Which candidate to purchase first? I would lean toward the KnifeGrinders applet and the FVB. I have become spoiled working in the Tormek water cooled dust free environment.

I have purchased both the applet and the FVB. I think Wootz is doing fine pioneering research with burr removal for sharpness longevity. Presumably, with your "taking it to the next level" comment for your family Henckels, you are not under the same time constraints as a farmers market sharpener. In your case, the extra time involved in complete burr removal seems desirable. Your payback will be happier family members for longer time periods between sharpening.

I use the KnifeGrinders applet and VFB somewhat differently than is shown in Wootz' videos. I combine the speed and repeatability of the kenjig with the precision of the applet. This works especially well with the VFB. The diameter of the leather honing wheel remains constant. If the Projection of the knives in the jig(s) remains constant, the VFB setting will also remain constant. See Rich Colvin's Sharpening Handbook or google "kenjig" for an explanation of why I chose 139mm Projection. Henckel knives should all be the same steel and work at the same bevel angle. You should be able to use the applet once for the VFB and "set it and forget it".

Keep us posted.

Ken