Swivel Base Annoyance

[loutent]

Hello all - new member here and my first post. I bought the T-8 less than a week ago and have been learning a lot! Before purchasing it I watched all the videos that I could find and they were a great help. I discovered this forum and have picked up a lot of great tips and will continue to do so I'm sure. So far I have sharpened about 10 chisels, a couple plane blades and 3 or 4 kitchen knives (I also bought the hand tool kit). Although not perfect, I am really pleased with my results so far - I was always somewhat frustrated with water stones, sandpaper, diamond plates etc - my results were inconsistent - user error and probably a little impatience on my part. I've been woodworking as a hobbyist for about 30 years and ever since I saw Norm and Jeff Farris on the NYW I wanted a Tormek!

I also got the swivel base - my annoyance is that water drips off (especially with knives but really with everything) onto the body of the machine and flows down into the top of the swivel base and fills it with water. I noticed that it is designed to hold some amount of water and that everything is pretty much made of plastic. After each session it requires removing the T-8, emptying the water and drying it off - I don't think that I would want to leave it in standing water like that. Also, at some point it begins to overflow. So is this normal and it is just part of the sharpening routine to remove the base at the end and set it up at the start?

Thanks for any suggestions.

Lou

[cbwx34]

Welcome to the forum.

My only suggestion... the old "Supergrind" model had extra thick feet on the leather wheel side... this tipped (angled) the sharpener just enough that most of the water ran to the outside of the sharpening wheel (especially when sharpening knives), and back into the trough.

Might try doing the same thing, and see if that help?

Glad your otherwise getting good results! 

Edit to add:  Another alternative... I sharpen with the wheel turning away from the edge... and noticed that pretty much no water "rides up" on the knife and flows off the side... might be something else to consider.

[Elden]

Welcome Lou. Try using less water in the trough. Consider the waterline in the trough as a maximum amount of water. As long as the wheel is picking up the water and carrying it around it should be sufficient to accomplish the task.

[ega]

Doesn't the swivelling base come with shims to tilt the machine towards the stone?

[cbwx34]

Doesn't the swivelling base come with shims to tilt the machine towards the stone?

Mine didn't (or if it did I didn't see them).    (Not sure it could be, since it rotates).

I looked at the page for the rotating base, and didn't see it mentioned... I took a screen shot (attached) of a T-7 sitting on the base... and indicated how it is raised on one side by the feet on the machine itself.

Edit to add:  I ran across another thread that talked about this...  https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=3255.0

[Ken S]

Welcome to the forum, Lou.

Elden is right on target with the water level. I normally turn the machine on and fill only until water starts to flow over top of the wheel. Let it continue running (without grinding). The stone will absorb a fair amount of water. Gradually add water until absorbtion stops.

I think most spillage occurs because of overfilling.

I usually have a little spillage.

The tilt feet do not apply with the T8. The zinc upper housing of the T8 has been designed to divert water back into the water trough. Therefore, the tilt is unnecessary.

I place my Tormek on a Tormek rubber mat. It is very well made. It is thick and has a good lip all around. (It is not inexpensive.) After my sharpening session, I remove the grinding wheel. There is usually a little water in the rotating base. I wipe everything dry with a paper towel or two. I set the rotating base against the side of the Tormek so that everything continues to dry. It's just part of my routine,

Ken

[cbwx34]

It sounds to me, from the original post, (and after reading the other thread I referenced), that water is running off the knife, between the machine body and stone, and is not properly getting channeled back into the trough.

While I now see that they tried to "design out" the tilt, I'm not sure how using less water solves the problem?  Sounds like getting the water to "divert back into the water trough" needs to be solved... that's what I'm seeing (from a distance anyway).

[ega]

The tilt feet do not apply with the T8. The zinc upper housing of the T8 has been designed to divert water back into the water trough. Therefore, the tilt is unnecessary.

Ken S:

Thanks for the correction and apologies for any confusion.

The T8 appears to have addressed most Tormek problems; however, not even the new stand solves the problem of needing to shift between two significantly different working heights. I suppose one could sit down for away-from-the-edge and stand for the reverse.

Has anyone measured the weight of water absorbed by the standard stone? I might do so myself out of curiosity.

[cbwx34]

The T8 appears to have addressed most Tormek problems; however, not even the new stand solves the problem of needing to shift between two significantly different working heights. I suppose one could sit down for away-from-the-edge and stand for the reverse.

Another reason I like the mod I made to the USB...

[Ken S]

Clever modification, CB.

What is the correct working height? I have not found one magic answer. The handbook lists differing recommendations, neither of which agree with the height of the work station. Norm Abram built in a pull out step in his Tormek sharpening station. Again, clever, although I am more comfortable standing on the floor.

Wolfy gave me the idea of having two small tables clamped together. Each would be small enough to be easily transported. One would be your desired height for vertical position, the other for horizontal. Each of the table tops would be sized to fit a Tormek rubber mat. The top not in use would hold tools to be sharpened, jigs, etc. A single Tormek could be moved back and forth as needed, or two Tormeks could be set up.

If space permits, placing the table where you could work on any side is a nice luxury.

I like the simple benches as shown in Wootz' knifegrinders website. I would build them with legs which could be rebolted to various heights easily.

Returning to the original topic: I like the rotating base. It was included with the second T7 I purchased to replace my first one which was stolen. It does get wet in use. I accept that as just part of the process and dry it off after use. My favorite way to rotate is to simply move around the table. I know that is not always practical.

Ken

[loutent]

Thanks for all the great suggestions - first I'm going to try using less water - as a new user I was constantly refilling to the maximum level and thinking back that would bring a lot of excess water to the top of the rotating wheel.

Lou

[ega]

Working height(s):

An idea which occurred to me some time ago was to make a simple rectangular carcase which could be flipped between low and high, rather like the toolmaker's 3:2:1 blocks; of course, you wouldn't easily be able to store anything in it!

[Ken S]

Very clever idea, ega!

I would not worry about onboard storage. My Tormek work station is probably the gold standard for onboard storage. However, I find the lower drawers inconveniently low. I keep the things I actually use in the upper drawers. Also, although it is a nice stationary unit, it is definitely stationary. I have moved it around my shop a few times using an appliance dolly, with the drawers full but the Tormek removed. Beyond those limits, it is not portable. A homemade wooden 123 bench would be portable. I would size the top(s) to work with the Tormek rubber work mat.

Ken

[cbwx34]

Thanks for all the great suggestions - first I'm going to try using less water - as a new user I was constantly refilling to the maximum level and thinking back that would bring a lot of excess water to the top of the rotating wheel.

Lou

I tested the theory... to see if less water (just enough to keep the wheel wet) would eliminate water collecting on the knife and running off to the side.  Didn't work for me.   

I still think the solution lies elsewhere.     (Maybe how close the trough is to the side of the machine... is there a gap?)

[DaveCH]

Hi Lou,

I had a similar experience of persistent water leakage with my new T8.  I tried a few things, including less water in the trough but got not result.

I noticed that there was a gap between the inner wall of the trough and the alloy face of the T8, varying from about 1mm to just under 2mm.  Looking at the trough on my machine, the inner edge is slightly bowed away from the face of the T8 in the centre area.  I got the trough swapped by the retailer.  Exactly the same as the original.  I also looked at another unit in the store and it was just the same.

In the end the solution that worked for me was simple, but a tad inelegant.  I removed the stone, cleaned up the face of the T8 with degreaser, fitted the trough at normal height (with the grinding wheel off) and applied some clear silicone sealant in a bead that followed the line of the inside edge of the trough.  The idea was that the bead forms a light, flexible seal against the top edge of the trough and pushes any falling water far enough out to avoid going down any remaining gaps between trough & machine.  I put a bit of grease on the edge of the trough to stop the sealant adhering to it and left it to set up.

The result is bone dry running every time, even with 2 3/4" plane blades, although I've not sharpened knives which I'd guess are the real test. In practice, you don't see the bead and I can't imagine it damaging the alloy casing.  The one drawback I can see is that that you'd need to redo the bead as the stone shrinks with usage over time, but I'd guess most people will get a lot of use before getting to that stage.

I'm away from home just now but could send photos if you need.

Hope this helps,
Dave