T8 water trough water leakage

[DaveCH]

I'm wondering if anyone else with a T8 has experienced this.  When sharpening blades that are narrower than the width of the stone, there is no issue.  When sharpening wider hand plane blades, I get a significant amount of water making its way from the top of the alloy housing down to the base of the machine where, in my case, it fills up the RB180 and then spills onto the bench.  I took several steps to fix this problem, all of which either failed or were only partially successful:
1. Put the unit in a large rubber-lined food tray (same size as the Tormek one, but half the price)
2. Put shims under the right hand side of the tray to put a slight left-ward tilt on the unit: no change
3. Got a replacement water trough: no change
4. Bought a large cooking pipette to empty the tray: no fun

Per the promo video, there's a clever detail machined into the side face above the stone shaft that's designed to carry water away from the side face so it falls into the trough, rather than running between the trough and the casting.  In my case, with the stone off and the trough properly installed and pushed firmly against the casting, there's a 2mm gap between casting and inner trough edge at the front and a 1.5mm gap at the rear (with the stone is on the left).  I bought my machine from Axminster in the UK and they gladly sent me a new water trough, but the gap measurements where identical.  I'm moving the blade smoothly and not throwing excess water off the edges.  So I either have two identically defective water troughs, or the shape of the casting isn't doing its job.

I loose water at a significant rate, with the recess in the top side of the RB-180 filling in just a few minutes when grinding a plane blade.  Beyond that, the food tray starts filling up.  I've even resorted to using a big cooking pipette to save me lifting the machine and drying everything out every half hour or so.  Looking closely at the machine with the stone off and trough attached, I can see that the profile of the machine body below the shaft (or the inner face of the trough) may be the problem.  The tray just doesn't match the body profile closely enough and it's clear that water is going to run between body and trough.  If there was a gap of well under 1mm, I'd expect surface tension to do it's job, but 2mm is asking too much.

Has anyone else seen this problem with the T8?  I struggle to believe that there's an issue with the alloy body of the machine, but it feels like there is too much water making its way under the machine.  Axminster are offering to replace the whole machine, but that feels a bit drastic.

Thanks
Dave

[Ken S]

Dave,

You are learning all the skills quickly! This one is not difficult.

Set up your Tormek with just the grinding wheel and water trough. Having a graduated water container like a kitchen measuring cup makes life easier. (I have several from my darkroom days. They are useful.) Around a quart or liter is a good starting point. Put in just enough water to have a little water flowing over the top of the grinding wheel. Leave the motor running. You will soon see the top of the wheel dry as the grinding wheel absorbs water. Continue adding small amounts of measured water until the grinding wheel stops absorbing.You want a continuous, but small flow of water over the grinding wheel. Make sure the top of your grinding wheel does not go dry when you are actually grinding. Make just as sure you do not overfill. I have found that most water spillage is either from overfilling, rotating the Tormek, and emptying the water trough. Careful use of the RB180 should solve any rotating problem. Using the turkey baster and knowing how to pry your T8 water trough off from the bottom will solve the emptying spillage issue.

I have not sharpened long knives or planer blades. I assume the extension ramp will cover that base.

Carefully avoiding overfilling should tame the main culprit. Start your water filling first thing when you begin a sharpening session. Allow enough time for the grinding wheel to finish absorbing.

If all that does not work, please post again.

Ken

[DaveCH]

Hi Ken,

Thanks for getting back so quickly.  I missed a key point in my post.  The issue is that, as I move the plane blade over to the right-side of it's travel, it inevitably spills a few drops of water from the overhanging part of the blade onto the top of the housing.  This is to be expected, as the blade always carries a lip of water, pulled onto it by the rotating stone, which falls off when the blade overhangs the stone.  The reason I get no issues with sharpening chisels is that I get an overhang of no more than a couple of mm as I move across the stone, whereas with a plane blade, I get or 50mm 60mm, so more water inevitably falls onto the top of the housing.  The problem is that most of the water on top of the housing seems to make its way down the left side and run between the housing and the inner edge of the trough.

I'm careful not to overfill the trough and I've not seen any sign of water making its way directly out of the trough and I've not had spillage when removing the trough.  That bit works well.

Cheers
Dave

[Ken S]

Dave,

My introduction to the T8 was a demonstration by Stig. He covered more than fits in a brochure or website. I recall him saying that part of the redesigned housing was a lip on the wet side designed to divert water back into the trough. Be that as it may, it is apparently not solving your problem. So, two suggestions:

The SE-76 and SE-77 include a stop collar for the right side. With a two inch wide blade for a number four or five plane, it should almost fit the grinding wheel. With the 2 3/8" blade, you can set the stop to minimize the overhang.

The second suggestion, which is probably more effective, borrows something from the Advanced Water Trough for thr T7. The AWT came with two magnetic feet to raise the dry side of the Tormek. This causes the water to drain toward the outside of the wheel, where the larger lip would catch it.
For the record, I think the new feet on the T8 are an improvement. They don't fall off!

Try placing spacers under the dry side. 1/8" to 1/4" is a good starting range. Experiment to see what works. I resisted doing this initially, as the Tormek is no longer level. Although this presents no real world difficulties, it violates my sense of symmetry. Just do it and forget your superstitions. 

Ken

[DaveCH]

Hi Ken,

Thanks Ken - good ideas.  I talked to Axminster over here who sell a lot of these machine and they say this kind of leakage is normal and happened to a similar degree on the T7.  I'm going to have a crack at sticking a narrow strip of 1.5mm neoprene sheet to the inner face of the trough.  Should be enough give in the neoprene to allow it to form a rough seal.  I'll try a few other tricks and variations if that doesn't work.

I'm happy with tilting the T8: I already use a shim under the tray and it doesn't upset my eyes!

Cheers,
Dave

[Herman Trivilino]

I talked to Axminster over here who sell a lot of these machine and they say this kind of leakage is normal and happened to a similar degree on the T7.

You mentioned it's worse with a wide plane iron than a narrow chisel, which is true. It's worse yet with something like a kitchen knife, for the reason you mentioned. Tilting the machine is a helpful remedy, but it's always a good idea to wipe off the top of the housing with a rag after each session.

Water is just something you have to deal with when you're using a water-cooled grinder. 

[DaveCH]

Hi Herman,

Good point! I really just wanted to check there was no problem with my machine.  What you say fits what the local dealer told me - i.e. it's a wet machine and things get wet ...

I'm going to add a paddling pool under my sharpening station with automatic water extraction, filtration and recycling directly back into the trough.

Dave

[Ken S]

I am unconvinced that so much water spillage is necessary. I will try to sharpen my longer kitchen knives this week and will report the results. I still think we may have an overfilling issue, but will let the chips fall where they may.

Ken

[SharpenADullWitt]

I am unconvinced that so much water spillage is necessary. I will try to sharpen my longer kitchen knives this week and will report the results. I still think we may have an overfilling issue, but will let the chips fall where they may.

Ken

When converting a formerly serrated knife to what was effectively the same as their boning knife, I found the longer your working on the base of the knife, water will shoot out the length of the knife. (granted I wasn't using the larger water trough)
I have also found that filling with water and not letting the stone absorb some, then adding so you get water across the knife, means you will shoot water off, until the stone is soaked and by then the water level is too low to have flowing water.  I try to let the machine run for a few minutes to adsorb water, then top off.

[Ken S]

Dave,

As promised, I sharpened my eight inch chef knife and my santoku, my two longest knives. I paid special attention to water spillage. I did see a very small amount of spillage on the top of the T8. When I cleaned up at the end of the session, I also noticed a small amount of water on the rotating base. I don't consider either of these amounts enough to be a problem.

I also noticed perhaps three drops of water outside the water trough. I had forgotten to use the chute. I think these drops were from the way I held the knife. After I installed the chute, I did not notice any water on the chute.

Several years ago, I watched two Tormeks in use for a day at a woodworking show. They were placed on a Sjoborg workbench with only a layer of cardboard for protection. There was almost no spillage, however, the Tormeks were set up by a Tormek expert, Steve Bottorff.

I noticed my water level was approximately half an inch below the maximum fill line. I still believe much of the spillage is due to overfilling.

Ken

[DaveCH]

Thanks Ken,

That's interesting and it'd be great if it fixes the problem.  I'll try running half an inch or so shy of the max line next time and I'll let you know.

Cheers
Dave

[Ken S]

Dave,

The determining factor needs to be the minimum amount of water in the though which will keep water flowing over the top of the wheel.

The flow of water needs to be present, however, it does not need to be a large flow. Where the level is in relationship to a line on the trough is secondary.

Ken

[DaveCH]

Thanks Ken.  That really makes sense now.  I'll give it a try.

Dave