a new way to calculate knife jig set up

[Ken S]

I recently purchased computer software from knifegrinders.com.au    Knifegrinders is the business website for our member, Wootz. Initially I made the purchase to support a forum member. After using it, I would purchase it again. Wootz, whose non forum name is Vadim, has devised a different method than Dutchman uses. I believe a sophisticated Tormek sharpener should be fluent with both systems. They fill different needs.

Dutchman's tables, among other things, are the basis for the kenjig. The system measures Distance from the universal support to the grinding wheel. The technique uses a combination square or the groove of a kenjig. Measurements are fast, reliable and repeatable. The units are millimeters and degrees, quite adequate for general sharpening.

Wootz's system measures Distance from the support bar down to a horizontal on the top of the Tormek frame. This system, being computer based, should more than satisfy the requirements of even the most discerning user. In fact, it far exceeds both my Starrett metric combination square and the Anglemaster. Why would someone want such accuracy? In industry, a tool's accuracy should be beyond its general use.


Projection from where the knife jig's adjustable stop rests on the support bar to the bevel edge of the knife, is determined the same way with both systems.

Using computer generated tables suits Vadim's work philosophy. He goes beyond sharp. He strives for the sharpest, most uniform edge possible. He has several different grinding wheels available, often of slightly different diameters. This program allows him to hone in on the exact same angle with different diameters.

The program is sophisticated, but easy to use. Initially, one selects the model of Tormek being used, T4, T7, or T8. The program now remembers the choice for future use. The user imputs the grinding wheel diameter in millimeters and fractions of a millimeter. Next the angle is input in degrees and fractions of a degree. The program displays the distance between the universal support and the top of the Tormek.

For general sharpening with one wheel, I will probably use mostly Dutchman's simpler method. For more demanding work, especially involving more than one grinding wheel, it is nice to have the firepower of Vadim's more sophisticated program. I see both in use in my shop.

Vadim's program is available directly from him (knifegrinders.com.au). It works with Mac OS, Windows, and Android. (not for ios ipads yet) It costs $30US. Vadim is very conscientious about product support. I like supporting forum members. I especially like when it also supports such a useful program.

Ken

[wootz]

Thank you so much for your positive review, Ken.
Coming from you, it has an added value due to your legendary honesty.

We are so happy our software has met that much interest in Europe and the US, thousands of views by the website logs.
We've been using it to set grinding angle for two years now, verifying the edge angle with a CATRA laser protractor in the end of grinding for QA, and this software has never failed. The applet sets an exact grinding angle; but given the manual setup, real life accuracy is 0.1 degree.

Ken has placed this thread in the Knife Sharpening section of the forum for a reason - this applet works for Knife Jigs and the Axe Jig only.

For the Jig Distance parameter, we use this simple but nonetheless accurate jig length measuring/setting block:

[Ken S]

Wootz,

I like your setting jig. My pencil set up works well; yours is definitely better. I have thought of building a cradle to hold the knife jig with knife attached. It would have a knife line in the same plane as the knife edge. When the knife was exactly centered, the edge would match the knife line. It looks like you may have incorporated this into your jig. Yes?

As moderator, I try to keep this forum non commercial and not promoting products which directly compete with Tormek, our hosts. That stated, I also feel an obligation to recommend products, especially by members, which benefit Tormek users. In every case, I have either purchased the product involved or, if given the product, I have made it a point to purchase other products from these members or related non members. I have never received, nor would I accept any pay for my comments.

In this case, I paid the same paypal amount any of us would. I did not consider asking for a discount.

I believe Wootz' work demonstrates my long held belief in the versatility of the Tormek. Through teachers like Steve Bottorff, Robin Bailey, and Wootz, a new Tormek owner can become proficient within a few hours of training. "Self taught" also works, although it is a less efficient way to work.

I believe some of the advanced work shown on this forum by people like Wootz, Dutchman, Jan and others, may surprise even the Tormek engineers. (I do not mean to minimize the continuing improvements by Tormek.) Even with all of this fine work, I do not believe we have reached the peak of the Tormek's potential.

Keep up the outstanding work, everyone.

Ken

[wootz]

Thank you for the praise, Ken.
Yes, our "jig setter" helps align the knife edge so that it is parallel with the Universal Support, which is often not the same as the blade spine.

[Jan]

For the Jig Distance parameter, we use this simple but nonetheless accurate jig length measuring/setting block:

Wootz, thank you for posting the picture of your very practical length setting block. 

Jan

[Jan]

For an easy and accurate setting of the universal support – grindstone distance I have modified the "Starrett combination square". This has been intended for Dutchman and kenjig concepts. For more info see https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=2879.msg15575#msg15575

The same tool can also be used for setting the Universal Support height above the top of the Tormek housing in the frame of Wootz bevel angle setting procedure.

Jan

[Jan]

Ken, I would like to ask you to do some exercise with your new software.

Please calculate the Universal support height for T7 and then for T8 for the following parameters: stone diameter 250 mm, projection length 139 mm and bevel angle 15°.

I expect some small difference between those USB heights.

Jan

[cbwx34]

I had a chance to beta test wootz program... and what a simple, yet effective way to set an angle.  I find it pretty cool to input a set of numbers, setting the USB almost feels like an act of faith, yet when checked with the AngleMaster... it's perfect.   I'm glad he's making the leap onto the mobile platform... hopefully iOS is coming soon!

Jan, yet another excellent modification.  I'm using a digital caliper (having recently discovered the "step" measurement method), but I like your setup, and may try and adopt it to the caliper.

Hopefully someday, all theses components can come together in a package made for the Tormek... so other tools don't have to be modified, etc.  Wootz, program, a "Jig Distance" block of some sort, and a specific device for accurately setting the USB, would make a great combo, and help bring the Tormek into the knife sharpening mainstream.

(A bit of a sidebar, if you get wootz program and find you don't have a metric ruler handy... it's easy to find one online to print out, until you can grab one).

Wootz program, I too consider a "must have"... in the toolkit.

[cbwx34]

Ken, I would like to ask you to do some exercise with your new software.

Please calculate the Universal support height for T7 and then for T8 for the following parameters: stone diameter 250 mm, projection length 139 mm and bevel angle 15°.

I expect some small difference between those USB heights.

Jan

I'm not Ken, but....

T-7 = 169.31mm
T-8 = 169.83mm
Bonus T-4 = 159.61mm (but 200mm stone)

[Jan]

Thank you cbwx for your numbers. 
The reason for differences in USB heights are modifications of housing geometry of individual models.

Jan

[wootz]

For those who may want to replicate the "jig setter block", the end-board height is 8mm, which together with the ruler 1mm thick brings it just above the knife jig lower jaw, allowing to lay the blade flat on the ruler.

[wootz]

For an easy and accurate setting of the universal support – grindstone distance I have modified the "Starrett combination square". This has been intended for Dutchman and kenjig concepts. For more info see https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=2879.msg15575#msg15575

The same tool can also be used for setting the Universal Support height above the top of the Tormek housing in the frame of Wootz bevel angle setting procedure.

Jan

Unfortunately, your advanced tool can't be used to measure distance to the housing in the newer T4 and T8, no matter how much I like it - where you can drop a perpendicular from the Universal Support with your tool sleeved on, the housing is chamfered.

A quality combination square can be used instead of the caliper depth probe - it is just matter of personal preferences.

[Ken S]

Ken, I would like to ask you to do some exercise with your new software.

Please calculate the Universal support height for T7 and then for T8 for the following parameters: stone diameter 250 mm, projection length 139 mm and bevel angle 15°.

I expect some small difference between those USB heights.

Jan

Jan,

My readings are identical with those of CB and, I trust, with your readings. That sort of accuracy would be quite a feat with the kenjig.

Now that we have the flexibility and sccuracy to reproduce so many subtle changes in angles, the trick will be in choosing which angle we wish. 

Ken

[Jan]

Unfortunately, your advanced tool can't be used to measure distance to the housing in the newer T4 and T8, no matter how much I like it - where you can drop a perpendicular from the Universal Support with your tool sleeved on, the housing is chamfered.

Wootz, thank you for your response. You are correct, my hands on experience is limited to the T7 model.

Jan

[Ken S]

Wootz, what is your preferred measuring tool for your program?

Ken