Replacing a Tormek wheel with a 4000 grit Sun King wheel?

[bisonbladesharpening]

Somewhat unrelated to this but I think this is the right group to get the proper answer.
My SG250 is down to 230.  Would it work on a T4 once it is below 200 and I purchase a new wheel for the T8
Best Wishes
Tim

[cbwx34]

Somewhat unrelated to this but I think this is the right group to get the proper answer.
My SG250 is down to 230.  Would it work on a T4 once it is below 200 and I purchase a new wheel for the T8
Best Wishes
Tim

I don't believe so... the T-4 wheel is only 40mm wide (vs. 50mm of the T-8)... so it won't fit width wise... at least not without some alterations (longer shaft and different water container would be needed... even then, not sure if it's possible).

[grepper]

That question has been discussed a couple of times before.  One such topic:

https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=2834.0

[cbwx34]

I hate when I make an assumption without actually trying to see if it works.  Assuming that the wider stone wouldn't fit... until I read in the thread grepper referenced, where Ken stated the shaft lengths were "about the same"... appears to be an incorrect assumption.

I recently acquired a T-4, so went to investigate.  Sure enough, the shaft on the T-4 extends out farther than on the larger model (apparently why the EzyLock cap is wider on the T-4).

So, I got my used 50mm wide stone (currently at about 218mm) and put it on the T-4.  (See attached picture... Photo 1).  From what I could tell, it might actually work.

There is enough shaft extending out, to screw on the EzyLock (Photos 2,3).  I used the metal version... not sure if enough extends out for the T-4 version to adequately work, and didn't want to risk breaking it.

The water trough also has enough width to accommodate the 50mm stone (Photos 4,5,6... another surprise).  I couldn't move it into place (stone is still to big of a diameter), but holding it up underneath, it cleared no problem.  In Photo 6, I hooked one side of the trough, and there appeared to be enough clearance width.

So, with palms sweating, I hit the "ON" button.  T-4 started right up... no issues that I could tell.

I can't answer if any issues would crop up... for example, is the machine: motor, housing, etc., robust enough to support the wider stone?  And, I'm not sure if the EzyLock that comes with the T-4 would work.  But, from this experiment anyway... no other mods appear to be needed to at least install the wider stone on the T-4... and can't say now that it "wouldn't work"... it appears possible.

[grepper]

It looks kind of cool on there!  Like nice big tires on a truck.  If it fits and goes round and round, I'd try it and see if it indeed works.  But that's just me.

I could be wrong, (for the first time in my life  ), but I doubt if any forum members can really answer your question about machine robustness, etc. I would surely think the housing would have not problems.  Since you got it to fit, and if it seems to work, you may be good to go.

However, you could always run it by Tormek support and see what they say.  If you do, please let us know.

[Ken S]

Well done, CB.

I think we have two questions to consider: Is it possible, and, is it practical? We can further divide practicality into mechanically and cost efficiently.

CB beat me to the finish line. I have been extremely busy this week, and have not gone down to my workshop. In the back of my mind, I was starting to think that the shaft length might not be such an issue. The bushings on my eight and ten inch CBN are the same part. My steel CBN wheels are 1 1/2" thick (approximately 38mm). The eight inch wheel works fine on the T7 or T8, which means it would work on any 250mm Tormek. I do not remember if I tested the T4 water trough for width with the SG-250. I am guilty of operating on an assumption, sloppy procedure.

I replaced both the plastic EZYlock and the plain nut on the leather honing wheel with the steel EZYlock and the quick connect nut, both originally intended for the T7/8. The fit is exact. (My opinion is that the plastic EZYlock and plain nut were used to keep cost down.) I interchange with five wheels on the EZYlock side, and prefer to leave the wheels dismounted after use. I like to remove (and replace) the leather honing wheel after use to keep the housing cleaner. I found the standard parts adequate. I just find the upgraded parts more to my liking. Some people soup up their cars; I drive a plain car and soup up my  Tormeks. The replacement parts cost around fifteen US dollars wach, and should be available through any dealer. The new website has well drawn exploded parts diagrams with part numbers.

I am somewhat concerned with the shorten thread length with the wider wheel on the T4. It has not been a problem with my other wheels. Due to the low RPM, it also does not seem a major safety concern.

I have faith that the T4's machined zinc top can meet the challenge of the wider grinding wheel. It handles my heavier steel CBN wheel without difficulty. So does the motor.

To me, the real question is the cost practicality. If one happens to already have a T4, this becomes a moot point. However, if the point is to avoid the cost of a replacement SG-250, around $190 US, spending $425 seems poor thrift to me. A T7 close out would not cost much more, and it comes with a brand new SG-250.

When an SG-250 has worn down to 200mm, it still has a loy of usefulness, however, eventual replacement is inevitable. Why not order the replacement and have the benefits of both a full diameter grinding wheel and a very usable spare for heavy work? There even seems to be a market for well worn used Tormek wheels, which would lessen the cost of a new wheel.

I think I may view the Tormek differently than many members. This may be in part because my first Tormek was stolen. I tend to regard grinding wheels, stone graders, and the diamond tip of the TT-50 truing tool as long term consumables, like brake shoes on my vehicle. If my plastic EZYlock nut broke, I would just order a replacement (steel) part. I still find the Tormek an amazing machine, but one made with replaceable parts.

Good snooping, CB.

Ken

[cbwx34]

Well done, CB.

I think we have two questions to consider: Is it possible, and, is it practical? We can further divide practicality into mechanically and cost efficiently.

CB beat me to the finish line. I have been extremely busy this week, and have not gone down to my workshop. In the back of my mind, I was starting to think that the shaft length might not be such an issue. The bushings on my eight and ten inch CBN are the same part. My steel CBN wheels are 1 1/2" thick (approximately 38mm). The eight inch wheel works fine on the T7 or T8, which means it would work on any 250mm Tormek. I do not remember if I tested the T4 water trough for width with the SG-250. I am guilty of operating on an assumption, sloppy procedure.

I replaced both the plastic EZYlock and the plain nut on the leather honing wheel with the steel EZYlock and the quick connect nut, both originally intended for the T7/8. The fit is exact. (My opinion is that the plastic EZYlock and plain nut were used to keep cost down.) I interchange with five wheels on the EZYlock side, and prefer to leave the wheels dismounted after use. I like to remove (and replace) the leather honing wheel after use to keep the housing cleaner. I found the standard parts adequate. I just find the upgraded parts more to my liking. Some people soup up their cars; I drive a plain car and soup up my  Tormeks. The replacement parts cost around fifteen US dollars wach, and should be available through any dealer. The new website has well drawn exploded parts diagrams with part numbers.

I am somewhat concerned with the shorten thread length with the wider wheel on the T4. It has not been a problem with my other wheels. Due to the low RPM, it also does not seem a major safety concern.

I have faith that the T4's machined zinc top can meet the challenge of the wider grinding wheel. It handles my heavier steel CBN wheel without difficulty. So does the motor.

To me, the real question is the cost practicality. If one happens to already have a T4, this becomes a moot point. However, if the point is to avoid the cost of a replacement SG-250, around $190 US, spending $425 seems poor thrift to me. A T7 close out would not cost much more, and it comes with a brand new SG-250.

When an SG-250 has worn down to 200mm, it still has a loy of usefulness, however, eventual replacement is inevitable. Why not order the replacement and have the benefits of both a full diameter grinding wheel and a very usable spare for heavy work? There even seems to be a market for well worn used Tormek wheels, which would lessen the cost of a new wheel.

I think I may view the Tormek differently than many members. This may be in part because my first Tormek was stolen. I tend to regard grinding wheels, stone graders, and the diamond tip of the TT-50 truing tool as long term consumables, like brake shoes on my vehicle. If my plastic EZYlock nut broke, I would just order a replacement (steel) part. I still find the Tormek an amazing machine, but one made with replaceable parts.

Good snooping, CB.

Ken

In my opinion... this isn't really... buying a T-4 to continue using a stone below 200mm.  I see it as a T4 owner having access to a stone (mainly the SB-250), they otherwise wouldn't be able to use, being able to buy a used stone that still has some life, and even the benefits of sharpening on a wider surface.  Different way of looking at it I guess.

Speaking of costs... I'm kinda surprised that Tormek doesn't just use the same shaft for both... doesn't seem to be much of a difference.  (I'm sure there's reasons for it though)...    I think the metal EzyLock will hold though, on the shorter distance.  If I had a stone small enough in diameter... I'd do an actual test to see if it worked over time.

Bummer your first Tormek was stolen... glad you stuck with it though. 

[cbwx34]

It looks kind of cool on there!  Like nice big tires on a truck.  If it fits and goes round and round, I'd try it and see if it indeed works.  But that's just me.

I could be wrong, (for the first time in my life  ), but I doubt if any forum members can really answer your question about machine robustness, etc. I would surely think the housing would have not problems.  Since you got it to fit, and if it seems to work, you may be good to go.

However, you could always run it by Tormek support and see what they say.  If you do, please let us know.

Ha... I thought the same thing... looks pretty cool.

I know the forum can't answer the durability questions... just thought I'd point out mainly that I have no idea... so "buyer beware".  From the other thread, RichColvin already asked Tormek and was told no... so probably won't pursue that.  (I would think if they wanted users to do it, they would advertise it... since it would make a good selling point?)  (Support... not advertise, might be a better word...).