Sharpening scissors

[Drop Shot]

I recently purchased the SVX-150 (I think thats the right model number) for sharpening scissors. I put the support plate on and adjusted it to the proper angle and mounted the scissors in the holder with the blade as far forward as it's design allowed (it was one of those bright orange sewing shears). However, when I tried to sharpen it, I ran into a problem. The lower (wider) portion of the holder would hit the stone   before the blade. Evidently, this is cockpit error, so any help on what I'm doing wrong   would be appreciated. I ended up doing it freehand.

[Jeff Farris]

Let's go over a few points to make sure that you did the set up correctly.

Fiskars (the orange handled scissors) are what I demonstrate with all the time, so we obviously have some confusion someplace.

Fiskars (and most scissors for that matter) should be ground at 60 degrees. The TORMEK Owner's Handbook suggests that you measure that angle with the support plate mounted to the Universal Tool Support and the blade clamp resting against the support plate.  I find this quite difficult, because the top of the clamps obscure your view of the AngleMaster.  You can measure the angle relative to the support plate, but the wedge shape of the blade clamp must be taken into account.  The back section of the blade clamp is a 10 degree wedge.  If you set the AngleMaster to 70 degrees (instead of 60) you can set the angle relative to the support plate.  

I hope this was your problem.  If not, we can dig a little deeper.

[Fineline]

Let's go over a few points to make sure that you did the set up correctly.

Fiskars (the orange handled scissors) are what I demonstrate with all the time, so we obviously have some confusion someplace.

Fiskars (and most scissors for that matter) should be ground at 60 degrees. The TORMEK Owner's Handbook suggests that you measure that angle with the support plate mounted to the Universal Tool Support and the blade clamp resting against the support plate.  I find this quite difficult, because the top of the clamps obscure your view of the AngleMaster.  You can measure the angle relative to the support plate, but the wedge shape of the blade clamp must be taken into account.  The back section of the blade clamp is a 10 degree wedge.  If you set the AngleMaster to 70 degrees (instead of 60) you can set the angle relative to the support plate. 

I hope this was your problem.  If not, we can dig a little deeper.

I was having a hard time seeing the angle setter in between the clamps.
This tip and the 10 degree wedge would be very useful to be included in the Tormek manual.
By the way, I'm still wondering why didn't Tormek make the length of the angle setter longer (extend the tip not touching the wheel)?
It would be a lot easier to tell the difference in the angles if the length is extended, within limits.

[Ken S]

Joe,

I thought the same thing about lengthening the anglemaster.  In fact, I even made redesign sketches. What changed my mind was the first time I used the Tormek in really good (dare I say proper) light. The anglemaster design as is worked fine in good light. I set up my Tormek on a workmate just outside my garage door on the north side of my house. The light was quite bright but soft. The handbook discusses good lighting.

You might try making up your making your own angle template for scissors. It is easy to do, and can be quite accurate. The angle master works on the principle of measuring two points on a chord. (the bottom edge of the adjuster and the bottom of the diameter adjustment) I recently saw photos of the previous anglemaster, the 100. The present design is far better. In the original design, there are two points and an angle. It would be easy to lay out a seventy degree angle from the bottom of a piece of cardboard and hollow out the bottom such that only two points were sticking out. You could make the measuring surface as long as you wish.

Have you watched Jeff Farris' scissors video?

Keep posting.

Ken 

[Fineline]

Thanks Ken.
I mostly play with it at night but I plan on putting extra lights. I'm sure it will help.
Yes, after posting the earlier message, I saw Jeff's video and he was talking about the same thing as what he wrote.

[Herman Trivilino]

Ken is right. Good light turns the Tormek into a totally new experience.

I have found that having a magnifier handy is also helpful. I have a lighted magnifier mounted right above my Tormek. I also have a dissecting 40X microscope near by. Both are a big help.

[Fineline]

I tried sharpening a pair of cheap scissors with the scissors jig set at 60 degrees.
As can be seen in the picture, the bevel near the pivot has a double bevel, one scissors less than 60 and the other scissors with a double bevel more than 60 degrees.
I have tried putting a little bit more pressure and time on the edge near the pivot to even things out for the one with primary bevel more than 60 degrees but seems like I have to grind off a lot more to get rid of the double bevel. If I grind off too much at the pivot edge, that means I will have to grind off the rest of the edge to make the entire bevel uniform. This will make the scissors narrow and likely to look 'funny'.

First question is, is the double bevel an operator issue or it could be that the knife wasn't uniform to begin with (unlikely?).

Second question is, what are the side effects of double bevel, be it more or less?

Thanks.

[grepper]

It seems doubtful to me that the scissors were manufactured with an uneven bevel, so I suspect operator error.  I'm guessing you created a new bevel on the rest of the blade that differed from the original grind.  I find it useful to always inspect a blade before sharpening, so I have a good idea what I'm working on. 

Do you use the felt tip (magic) marker trick to set the sharpening angle to the existing bevel angle of the blade?  If not, use a marker to cover the bevel or a portion of it, and then turn the wheel by hand with the blade on the wheel.  Adjust until the wheel evenly wipes the marker off the bevel.

Unless the area near the center where you did not grind is really dull, I doubt you will notice the difference.  Those look like inexpensive scissors anyway, so I doubt you are using them to cut hair, fine silk or some mission critical materials.   More likely just paper and stuff around the house.

Scissors can be strange to sharpen, but the Tormek will do a great job at it.  I've had pretty strong vibrations start and sharpening is a vibrating, squealing freak show!  I thought all the shrieking, squealing and vibrating would mess up the edge but it didn't.  It can actually be pretty loud.

Just like with knives, it's a good idea to get a few pairs of cheap scissors and practice a bit.  Practice sharpening right up to the center.  Happily grind away until they are just stumps!  Grind off the edge and then sharpen them again.  Put a good nick in the blade and see what it takes to grind it away.  Merrily grind a new bevel angle if you want.  Play and have at it!  After a few of those you'll feel much more proficient and know what to expect. 

[Fineline]

It seems doubtful to me that the scissors were manufactured with an uneven bevel, so I suspect operator error.  I'm guessing you created a new bevel on the rest of the blade that differed from the original grind.  I find it useful to always inspect a blade before sharpening, so I have a good idea what I'm working on. 

Yes, I think it's my error. What puzzles me is why that happens.

Do you use the felt tip (magic) marker trick to set the sharpening angle to the existing bevel angle of the blade?  If not, use a marker to cover the bevel or a portion of it, and then turn the wheel by hand with the blade on the wheel.  Adjust until the wheel evenly wipes the marker off the bevel.

No. I just set it to 60 degrees. Getting the same bevel wasn't a priority. I wanted to get a new nice even bevel.

Unless the area near the center where you did not grind is really dull, I doubt you will notice the difference.  Those look like inexpensive scissors anyway, so I doubt you are using them to cut hair, fine silk or some mission critical materials.   More likely just paper and stuff around the house.

Scissors can be strange to sharpen, but the Tormek will do a great job at it.  I've had pretty strong vibrations start and sharpening is a vibrating, squealing freak show!  I thought all the shrieking, squealing and vibrating would mess up the edge but it didn't.  It can actually be pretty loud.

Just like with knives, it's a good idea to get a few pairs of cheap scissors and practice a bit.  Practice sharpening right up to the center.  Happily grind away until they are just stumps!  Grind off the edge and then sharpen them again.  Put a good nick in the blade and see what it takes to grind it away.  Merrily grind a new bevel angle if you want.  Play and have at it!  After a few of those you'll feel much more proficient and know what to expect. 

Indeed. This is fun and frustrating at the same time. Thanks for your encouragement

[Herman Trivilino]

I get bevels like that a lot. The one on the bottom has no effect because you have the same bevel angle along the entire length of the blade. The top pair of scissors needs additional grinding to make the bevel reach the entire length of the cutting edge. It will take just a few minutes more and won't remove anywhere near as much steel as you seem to think it will. Alternatively, if the scissors cut fine now you could just leave them and fix it the next time they need sharpening.

[Fineline]

I get bevels like that a lot. The one on the bottom has no effect because you have the same bevel angle along the entire length of the blade. The top pair of scissors needs additional grinding to make the bevel reach the entire length of the cutting edge. It will take just a few minutes more and won't remove anywhere near as much steel as you seem to think it will. Alternatively, if the scissors cut fine now you could just leave them and fix it the next time they need sharpening.

I'll practice more. It's an eyesore to see double bevels.

[SharpenADullWitt]

Some scissors come apart, others don't.  (I haven't sharpened any yet, been waiting for garage sale season)
I am wondering if part of the reason for the dual bevel, is getting close to the other side and it either hitting something like the stone (or whatever else it was sharpened on), or the sharpener, trying not to get stuck by it, and then somewhat changing the angle of attack?

[Fineline]

Some scissors come apart, others don't.  (I haven't sharpened any yet, been waiting for garage sale season)
I am wondering if part of the reason for the dual bevel, is getting close to the other side and it either hitting something like the stone (or whatever else it was sharpened on), or the sharpener, trying not to get stuck by it, and then somewhat changing the angle of attack?

You might find some scissors lying around. Try it, it's fun.
I doubt the hitting caused it. I'm been reminding myself to make sure the holder rest against the platform be it hitting or not. Regardless, I'll go find more scissors to try out.

[Herman Trivilino]

It's simply because you didn't spend enough time grinding on that spot. What you're calling a double bevel appears simply because you are seeing two surfaces, the original and the one you just created.

Scissors don't have the same bevel along their entire length. The Tormek grinds at one angle, so you can't match the existing bevel everywhere. The bevel angle is not critical, anyway. At least not for the scissors a Tormek can sharpen. The much more expensive scissors, like the ones used to cut hair in a salon, might be different. I've never seen anyone recommend they be sharpened on a Tormek, though.

[Fineline]

Scissors don't have the same bevel along their entire length. The Tormek grinds at one angle, so you can't match the existing bevel everywhere.

Oh, all along, I thought scissors have the same bevel throughout.