a new Extended Universal Support Bar

[Jan]

OK Ken, although it is incredible to me, your cleaver is so thin, that you could symmetrize the knife jig behavior using a 0.25 mm spacer. For practical reasons it is of course not necessary, because it does not cause a visible difference in bevel angle/width. 

Jan

[SharpenADullWitt]

The Chinese style cleavers are so thin, because of how they are used.  They are the only knife used in some kitchens.  Where our western cleavers were more of a butchering tool.  The cleaver Jan shown, while homemade (how a lot of cleavers were, seen some video's on making them from old saw blades),  also looks to me to be closer to a butchers knife as well.  (maybe a multiuse design by the maker?)

[Ken S]

That suits me perfectly. I am almost exclusively vegetarian and have no use for butchers' knives. My Chinese cleaver works very well for  vegetables.

Ken

[SharpenADullWitt]

That suits me perfectly. I am almost exclusively vegetarian and have no use for butchers' knives. My Chinese cleaver works very well for  vegetables.

Ken

Then you might have no use for your cleaver, either.....
There is a Youtube video on how to use a Chinese Cleaver (or as the gal calls it, a Chinese cleaver knife), and they also use it for meat (from filleting to mincing).
One other difference between the two styles that dawned on me, the thickness of the cutting board needed.  (mass of the western style cleaver, needs a thicker board.  When I looked for one, several reviews talked about splitting the boards in two)

[Jan]

Good comments, SADW and Ken! 

In my mother language (Czech) the name for a cleaver is derived from the same root as an axe. This is the reason why people in this country would not use the name "cleaver knife" for a traditional western style thick cleaver. In our minds cleaver is a heavy duty tool, a butcher's chopper, used to separate ribs or chop through the chicken bones.

The cleaver I have shown here is not quite a typical one, it resembles a heavy santoku knife. The traditional cleavers used here have a rectangular blade, some 5 to 6 mm thick. Their use in modern contemporary kitchen is quite rare. The edge angle is usually between 45 and 50°, not sharp enough for easy cutting.

Jan

P.S.: From my youth I remember that in many urban households, where there was no hatchet at hand, cleavers or bayonets of the World War were (mis)used to split dry wood for stove igniting. The batoning technique often damaged the spine of the cleaver.


Recently I have found a bayonet blade among my aunt's garden tools. Its spine is OK. I think it is cast iron not forged steel.

[Ken S]

Jan,

Very interesting history and tools! Thanks for posting them. I believe my diminutive cleaver is better at stir fry than combat......

Ken

[wootz]

Wootz, if I understand you well, you have two universal supports, one for the Tormek grindstone and the other for your dedicated fine grindstone. When the diameters of these grindstones are different than also the positions of the micro adjusts are different, despite the fact that both set the same bevel angle.

Jan

Sorry Jan, somehow I missed your question.
I use 3 stones: 220, 800 and 4000 grit. And one universal support.
Before i start sharpening, I drop universal support on the first stone, anchor its position with microadjust, then change to the second stone and note down how many revolutions/digits of microadjust wheel is needed for the US to rest on its surface, then change to the third stone and again note down the number of microadjust revolutions.

With the knife in the jig, I set angle on the first stone only.
As I change stones, I change height of the universal support with microadjust wheel by the number of revolutions I got in the very beginning for the stones.

This speeds up sharpening cycle compared to the same stone regrading or setting angle on each stone.
When a fellow walks up and empties 4 or 5 knives out of his pockets, you appreciate the advantage.

[Ken S]

Wootz,

Your very useful technique reminds me of my favorite Mark Twain quote, "Man is the only creature with the one true religion, all seven of them!" Fortunately the Tormek is versatile enough to work well with our varying techniques.

Thanks for posting, and, I agree, speed is much appreciates when the fellow pulls  four or five knives out of his pocket!

Ken

[Jan]

I use 3 stones: 220, 800 and 4000 grit. And one universal support.
Before i start sharpening, I drop universal support on the first stone, anchor its position with microadjust, then change to the second stone and note down how many revolutions/digits of microadjust wheel is needed for the US to rest on its surface, then change to the third stone and again note down the number of microadjust revolutions.

With the knife in the jig, I set angle on the first stone only.
As I change stones, I change height of the universal support with microadjust wheel by the number of revolutions I got in the very beginning for the stones.

This speeds up sharpening cycle compared to the same stone regrading or setting angle on each stone.

Wootz, your answer arrived as Easter food for my thought, thank you. 

When I have read about your setting procedure, I remained to sit sheepishly for a while because I have never thought anything like this. After a while Mr. Euclid told me, that perhaps it may be applicable for small differences in diameters of grinding wheels.

Then I asked Mr. Autocad what will happen when I set a bevel angle of 15^o on a stone with a diameter of 200 mm and transfer it by your procedure to a stone with 250 mm diameter. The answer was following: on the 250 mm stone the bevel angle will be some 21^o.

Wootz, please be so kind and reassure me that you use this procedure only for stones with slightly different diameters. Otherwise, I will not have a quiet sleep.

Have a happy Easter!

Jan

[wootz]

 
Appreciate your humor, guys.

Well, Jan, the aftermarket #800 wheel diameter is 254mm and takes about 3 full revolutions of microadjust from the SG-250.
Is Euclid whispering you I may be loosing the bevel angle set on 250mm wheel as I change to 254mm wheel and just raise the US by 3 revolutions?

I eager to hear harsh criticism, honestly. Or minim. Anything to improve.
Though when I was trying this for the first time, I marked the bevel between stones and couldn't see wrong with this approach.

[wootz]

Jan, i just read Mr Autocad notion above.

Might I ask you to estimate angle change from diameter 250mm to 254mm, please?
Thank you very much indeed.

[Jan]

Thanks Wootz, you really calm me down because you use your setting procedure only for grindstones with very similar diameters.

When you set a bevel angle of 15^o on a grindstone with a diameter 250 mm and transfer it by your procedure to a grindstone with 254 mm diameter the bevel angle will change to 15.3^o. That is really negligible difference and justification of your unique support setting procedure. 

Jan

[wootz]

Happy me, passed Jan's QA check.

But you know, this explains subtle inconsistencies I am getting when I perfect edge on knives in my collection, and I am really grateful for your explanation.

[Jan]

You are welcome, Wootz. I rejoice with you!

Jan

P.S.: Appreciated wise and an adequate notion regarding "subtle inconsistencies" because they can easily grow to a larger size.

[Jan]

Wootz, 3 full revolutions of microadjust from the SG-250 to the #800 should correspond to a larger difference between the stone diameters than the 4 mm mentioned by you. Based on my simplified Autocad model the difference in diameters could by some 8 mm. Precise diameter estimation can be done by measuring the wheel circumference.

Your setting procedure can be modified also for grindstones with arbitrary diameters. If you use the TTS-100 modified for knifes* to estimate how many revolutions of the microadjust are necessary for each grindstone, you will get reliable figures for your setting procedure. 

* http://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=2639.30 and
http://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=2639.45

However, as I have mentioned earlier, I think the best is to have dedicated universal support for each frequently used grindstone/wheel. I have two universal supports, one for SG-250 and the other for the honing wheel, by default both are set for 15^o bevel angle and kenjig projection length 139 mm. 

Jan