a new Extended Universal Support Bar

[Herman Trivilino]

Herman, did you die-thread this extended support, or the older US?

I threaded the shaft of the US that came with my Tormek back in 2002. I did it soon after I became aware of Tormek introducing the innovation.

[wootz]

Thanks, Herman

[SharpenADullWitt]

I only raised the idea, because it could be done, and I think when enough of them get out there, we may find other uses where a threaded rod could be needed.
Heck, if enough people needed it, Robin wouldn't have had to come up with it, as Tormek would be selling them.

[Ken S]

Every new Tormek since sometime in 2003 comes with a threaded universal support bar. For those without a microadjust usb (universal support bar), those with the mechanical wherewithall can thread their own,  just like Herman and Elden have done. For those who have neither thread dies nor expertise in using them, a replacement usb is not costly.

I believe the microadjust is essential for truing the grinding wheel. It can be a convenient part of adjusting the usb height for those who do not use wooden blocks. Every Tormek user should have a threaded usb and the updated TT-50 Truing Tool.

The question is how useful is the microadjust with an oversize usb? For setting up a cleaver in the knife jig, the anglemaster, black marker or, ideally, a gage block (kenjig) makes quick work of the task. Following the kenjig construction modifying it for a cleaver eliminates the need for other tools with a cleaver. Only the cleaver, knife jig and a kenjig are needed. Results will be consistent and repeatable.

When I first examined the Extended Universal Support Bar,  the first thing I saw was a solution to a longtime project. I have been wanting to be able to use the grinding wheel with the usb in horizontal mode with the wheel coming into the blade. The longer legs of the eusb can be mounted in the horizontal sleeves from the far side, thus making horizontal position grinding into the blade possible.  This would be useful when a lower mounting of the Tormek was not convenient.

I removed most of this idea. It does not w ork. The problem was water pouring out the front. My bad idea. Robin never suggested this use. He made it to provide longer space between the grinding wheel and the support bar. It does this very well. I recommend Robin's tool.
Ken

[robincbailey]

Why would you want to swap wheels whilst doing a cleaver or long carving knife? Remember this support is a supplement not a replacement, and I only use it for extra height or width when required.

[Ken S]

You lost me, Robin.  Where did changing grinding wheels pop up in this discussion? You are absolutely correct in that your support is a supplement, not a replacement. It is a useful supplement.

Ken

[robincbailey]

Micro adjustment was in reply to Wootz on the first page as he said that no having the thread was stopping him from buying one. Shame really as they are well worth it, and makes what was a hard job sharpening cleavers very easy.

[wootz]

Why would you want to swap wheels whilst doing a cleaver or long carving knife? Remember this support is a supplement not a replacement, and I only use it for extra height or width when required.

Regrading the stone to 1000 and then ungrading it back to 220 is kinda a PITA and slows you down, not to mention the unprodutive waste of the stone. Instead I have a dedicated fine stone. But as the two stones hardly ever are of the same diameter, I match them with the US microadjust.

[Jan]

Wootz, if I understand you well, you have two universal supports, one for the Tormek grindstone and the other for your dedicated fine grindstone. When the diameters of these grindstones are different than also the positions of the micro adjusts are different, despite the fact that both set the same bevel angle.

Jan

[Ken S]

Wootz,

I understand your thoughts about the stone grader and using two different grinding wheels, one dedicated to coarse and one to fine, however, I believe there is an easier way to accomplish this than by using the micro adjust.

Before discussing that thought, I would like to state that the Extended Universal Support Bar was not intended as a universal replacement for the Tormek model. It was designed to handle a specific situation beyond the scope of the Tormek usb, specifically sharpening cleavers. Cleavers are too large to be sharpened with the Tormek knife jigs in Tormek's usb. It will not extend high enough to handle these knives.

That leaves two other choices; 1) freehand sharpening, as recommended by Tormek or 2) using Herman's HK-50 small knife tool. Admittedly, a cleaver is not a small knife, however, it works well in the HK-50.

The extended usb allows the job to be done with the precision and simplicity of a Tormek knife jig. Even a very experience knife sharpening expert like Steve Bottorff has stated that the Tormek knife jigs are the key to consistently obtaining even bevels. That stated, I will state that I believe a very skilled Tormeker with an KH-50 may be able to come close with care.

As to using two grinding wheels, I have also considered that. Ideally I would use separate grinding wheels in separate Tormeks. I don't see using the stone grader as being any more of a hassle than continually changing grinding wheels. Keep in mind that the stone grader was invented long before the EZYlock shaft. Also, the economy of only needing one grinding wheel has been a foundation point with the Tormek.

In his knife sharpening you tube, Jeff Farris recommended generally using only the fine graded stone except when the knife is damaged. Even if this required slightly more grinding time, it would be quicker than either using the stone grader or changing wheels. I don't know how much regrading is really necessary, especially with Chinese cleavers, which are rarely damaged.

My preference over either using the micro adjust or two usbs would be to use two kenjigs. I would set the groove for one to the diameter of the coarse wheel and one to the diameter of the fine wheel. Over time, both of these grooves will need to be gradually lengthened. This is a very slow process. This could be done with two kenjigs, or, as Jan has suggested, with one double ended tool.

I believe the amount of stone wear due to using the stone grader has been overstated. I have found keeping the wheel trued causes  more wear. I look upon stone wear as an inevitable "cost of doing business" with any abrasive material.

I stand behind my statement that Robin's Extended Universal Support Bar is a useful adjunct to the Tormek USB and that it does not require threading or a micro adjust.

Ken

[jeffs55]

Wootz,
Even a very experience knife sharpening expert like Steve Bottorff has stated that the Tormek knife jigs are the key to consistently obtaining even bevels. That stated, I will state that I believe a very skilled Tormeker with an KH-50 may be able to come close with care.

As to using two grinding wheels, I have also considered that. Ideally I would use separate grinding wheels in separate Tormeks.
Ken

Well Ken, I must disagree on the obtaining even bevels by using the Tormek jigs. It has been shown that on thick bladed knives using a Tormek jig, the bevels will not be even from one side to the other. Of course, they are not even on thin bladed knives but the human eye finds it harder to detect the difference. One bevel is going to be obviously wider on one side of the thick blade than the other. You know of course that the two Tormeks with two different stones is my method of choice. All this stuff about different angles due to the curvature of the earth and the phase of the moon can be easily addressed by the judicious use a magic marker on the blade edge. The human eye can discern variances to thousandths of an inch faster than the angle tool.

[Jan]

Jeff, you are correct, the knife jig provides perfectly even bevels for blade thickness of 2.5 mm (some 0.1"). There is surely some margin around this thickness, but beyond that our eye starts to detect some difference in the width of the bevels. I think the margin is at least +/- 0.5 mm (0.02").

Because cleavers are usually significantly thicker than 3 mm (0.12"), they require setting of the bevel angle individually for each side. Even the kenjig cannot set the cleaver bevel angle for both sides correctly.

Ken, just the need for an individual bevel angle setting for each side of the cleaver is an argument for a micro adjust on the extended universal support. This can make the knife jig flipping there and back much easier. 

Jan

[Ken S]

Jeff and Jan,

I see your points, and agree with you. However, I think we need to differentiate between variations in the two bevels due to thickness of the knife and differentiations in a single bevel due to holding technique. It is these holding technique variations I am talking about with recommending the knife jigs.

My cleaver happens to be a Chinese Cleaver, not the heavier traditional western cleaver. In either case, I believe thickness adjustments can easily be made using the kenjig in combination with thickness gages (feeler gages). These could be applied with the knife on one side in the clamp or placed between the kenjig and the grinding wheel or universal support when setting the distance.

Caveat" I have not yet actually tried this. When I do, I will report the results, positive or negative.

Ken

[Jan]

OK Ken, congrats, you are very inventive! 

Adding feeler gages in the knife jig clamp can symmetrise the jig behaviour only for thin knifes, so it is not an option for cleavers. 

Placing the feeler gages between the kenjig and the grinding wheel can compensate for the side bias of the bevel angles similarly as the micro adjust.

Jan

P.S.: Just out of curiosity, the spine thickness of my old hand-forged cleaver is 9 mm (3/8").   

[Ken S]

Jan,

Quite a solid knife! My Chinese cleaver is a lightweight by comparison, only two millimeters thick.

Ken